5 ms·

Absolutely that is true. As I said, i'm not arguing that we live in a perfect meritocracy. What i'm arguing is three things: 1. We live in a partial meritocrac

by darawk 8y ago

Absolutely that is true. As I said, i'm not arguing that we live in a perfect meritocracy. What i'm arguing is three things: 1. We live in a partial meritocracy. Success is strongly correlated with effort and skill, but by strong I mean maybe in the 30-50% range. 2. Meritocracy is good, and we should strive to make that 30-50% correlation rise up to 100% (even if we can't ever quite get there). 3. Believing in meritocracy is extremely important, and has produced the tremendous economic largesse we all enjoy today.

scarface74 8y ago
So did my son have more “skill” in getting into the college of his choice after we paid $1100 for ten sessions with a personal ACT tutor who was a college professor? Did the children of the parents who paid $250K to get their children into school by bribing administrators have more skill?
- darawk 8y ago
  Did you actually read my comment or are you just responding to some odd emotional interpretation of what you imagine someone would have said? Because I very clearly stated that I didn't think society was completely meritocratic. I even put a numerical range on how meritocratic it was: 30-50%. So, your examples are really pretty meaningless.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Since getting to college has a large affect on lifetime earnings and people of means can legally increase the odds of getting to college. Your family’s wealth has an overwhelming impact on your own success. https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-families-across-generations/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-fami... Forty-two percent of children born to parents in the bottom fifth of the income distribution remain in the bottom, while 39 percent born to parents in the top fifth remain at the top. Children of middle-income parents have a near-equal likelihood of ending up in any other quintile, presenting equal promise and peril for those born to middle-class parents. The “rags to riches” story is much more common in Hollywood than on Main Street. Only 6 percent of children born to parents with family income at the very bottom move to the very top.
    - darawk 8y ago
      6 percent from the very bottom move to the very top. That is fucking incredible. They moved all the way up! 6% of them! That's a great statistic, and conveys the exact opposite of your intent. The mobility between the more intermediate strata will be substantially higher than that. Nothing you've said here contradicts my point in the slightest.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        https://dqydj.com/united-states-household-income-brackets-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/united-states-household-income-brackets-pe... Percentile cutoffs. 2nd - $24000 3rd - $46400 4th - $76500 5th - $127400 It’s not that hard to go from the 1st to the 2nd but that’s not exactly a livable wage for a household. The third is also not hard for a household if you have two earners. But good luck with that $46K if you have children needing child care. What most hear consider “middle class” and what is the statistical middle class $46K - $76.5K is completely different.
        darawk 8y ago
        It's all substantially more complicated than that, though. 46k is abject poverty in San Francisco, but in Des Moines, you can probably live pretty well. You can't just take the average income bracket of the US and ignore cost of living.
        scarface74 8y ago
        In the context of income mobility, as far as I know, they aren’t taking cost of living into account.

by darawk 8y ago

scarface74 8y ago

So did my son have more “skill” in getting into the college of his choice after we paid $1100 for ten sessions with a personal ACT tutor who was a college professor? Did the children of the parents who paid $250K to get their children into school by bribing administrators have more skill?

darawk 8y ago
Did you actually read my comment or are you just responding to some odd emotional interpretation of what you imagine someone would have said? Because I very clearly stated that I didn't think society was completely meritocratic. I even put a numerical range on how meritocratic it was: 30-50%. So, your examples are really pretty meaningless.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Since getting to college has a large affect on lifetime earnings and people of means can legally increase the odds of getting to college. Your family’s wealth has an overwhelming impact on your own success. https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-families-across-generations/ https://www.brookings.edu/research/economic-mobility-of-fami... Forty-two percent of children born to parents in the bottom fifth of the income distribution remain in the bottom, while 39 percent born to parents in the top fifth remain at the top. Children of middle-income parents have a near-equal likelihood of ending up in any other quintile, presenting equal promise and peril for those born to middle-class parents. The “rags to riches” story is much more common in Hollywood than on Main Street. Only 6 percent of children born to parents with family income at the very bottom move to the very top.
  - darawk 8y ago
    6 percent from the very bottom move to the very top. That is fucking incredible. They moved all the way up! 6% of them! That's a great statistic, and conveys the exact opposite of your intent. The mobility between the more intermediate strata will be substantially higher than that. Nothing you've said here contradicts my point in the slightest.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      https://dqydj.com/united-states-household-income-brackets-percentiles/ https://dqydj.com/united-states-household-income-brackets-pe... Percentile cutoffs. 2nd - $24000 3rd - $46400 4th - $76500 5th - $127400 It’s not that hard to go from the 1st to the 2nd but that’s not exactly a livable wage for a household. The third is also not hard for a household if you have two earners. But good luck with that $46K if you have children needing child care. What most hear consider “middle class” and what is the statistical middle class $46K - $76.5K is completely different.
      - darawk 8y ago
        It's all substantially more complicated than that, though. 46k is abject poverty in San Francisco, but in Des Moines, you can probably live pretty well. You can't just take the average income bracket of the US and ignore cost of living.
        scarface74 8y ago
        In the context of income mobility, as far as I know, they aren’t taking cost of living into account.