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I just read the Robin Waterfield myself, and I found it absolutely wonderful. It was the first ancient writing I've read in my adult life, and I was shocked by

I just read the Robin Waterfield myself, and I found it absolutely wonderful. It was the first ancient writing I've read in my adult life, and I was shocked by how clear and easy to understand it was. I know there are arguments for preserving the original prose of a text, however reading Waterfield's translation, it's clear that Herodotus wanted to be understood. He spoke clearly, and often caveated his speech to as to be clear to the reader. I can grab some verbatim excerpts if anyone's interested, but his clarification when telling of Darius of child ("But he didn't say Darius, because no one knew he was called Darius yet") and then his explanation of a metaphor in Getae blew my mind. ("They probably don't mean the northern lands are literally covered in feathers, and this was likely just a metaphor for snow.") This is how a precise, scientifically-minded modern writer would communicate. I had always always equated ancient writing with the Old Testament, or some of the more metaphor-laden prose for old plays (Oedipus) that were pretty opaque to my young mind. But reading Waterfield's translation of Herodotus was a different experience altogether: every sentence is easy to understand, and you can sympathize strongly with Herodotus and the ancient peoples he talks about: there's quite a bit of talent and intelligence, but not much concrete information. And, if you read the Histories without a reference nearby, then you're on equal footing with Herodotus himself.

Udik 8y ago
To add to your comment, this is one of the examples I still remember from reading parts of the Histories: "As for Libya [Africa, apparently], we know it to be washed on all sides by the sea, except where it is attached to Asia. This discovery was first made by Necos, the Egyptian king, who on desisting from the canal which he had begun between the Nile and the Arabian gulf, sent to sea a number of ships manned by Phoenicians, with orders to make for the Pillars of Hercules [the strait of Gibraltar], and return to Egypt through them, and by the Mediterranean. The Phoenicians took their departure from Egypt by way of the Erythraean sea, and so sailed into the southern ocean. When autumn came, they went ashore, wherever they might happen to be, and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut. Having reaped it, they again set sail; and thus it came to pass that two whole years went by, and it was not till the third year that they doubled the Pillars of Hercules, and made good their voyage home. On their return, they declared- I for my part do not believe them, but perhaps others may- that in sailing round Libya they had the sun upon their right hand. In this way was the extent of Libya first discovered." So Herodotus passes on us a piece of information he doesn't understand or believe in, but that seems to prove that the circumnavigation of Africa actually happened because the sailors, having passed the equator, kept seeing the sun on their right side at midday- since they were moving clockwise around the continent. Shivers :)
- aristophenes 8y ago
  Those poor Phoenicians, expertly conducted a long and dangerous voyage of exploration, and afterwards most of their contemporaries probably thought they were lazy incompetent liars who wasted time for a few years before coming back.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  livius.org has a most excellent commentary on Pharaoh Necho's expedition. It starts here: https://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-on-the-first-circumnavigation-of-africa/ https://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-o... Livius is what we all think the WWW should look like, but instead we ended up with Facebook.
- kwelstr 8y ago
  "...and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut." It has to be a grain other than corn (maize), since that one came from the Americas.
  - amvalo 8y ago
    Corn was actually a generic term.
    - cygx 8y ago
      It still is in British English (though this is apparently beginning to change? Bloody Americans :p).
      - kwhitefoot 8y ago
        It's generic in Norwegian too, although spelled with a k.
    - kwhitefoot 8y ago
      Corn still is a generic term.
gmoot 8y ago
It's not just Herodotus; many ancient works create this impression. We have this implicit chronological snobbery because of our technology achievements, but when you read ancient works you realize that they were just as smart as we are.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > when you read ancient works you realize that they were just as smart as we are. When you read ancient works the impression you get is heavily distorted by survivorship bias; it's not like we've preserved a representative sample of such works.
  - gmoot 8y ago
    Sure? But at minimum they were no dumber then the extant works show. There are plenty of dumb people today too.
njharman 8y ago
> This is how a precise, scientifically-minded modern writer would communicate. His technical descriptions of boats kind of sucked though.
lou1306 8y ago
I suggest you give Xenophon a try next. Anabasis is a great adventure book, with a crystal-clear style (possibly even more so than Erodotus').
- everdrive 8y ago
  I'll do just that, thanks for the recommendation!

Udik 8y ago

To add to your comment, this is one of the examples I still remember from reading parts of the Histories: "As for Libya [Africa, apparently], we know it to be washed on all sides by the sea, except where it is attached to Asia. This discovery was first made by Necos, the Egyptian king, who on desisting from the canal which he had begun between the Nile and the Arabian gulf, sent to sea a number of ships manned by Phoenicians, with orders to make for the Pillars of Hercules [the strait of Gibraltar], and return to Egypt through them, and by the Mediterranean. The Phoenicians took their departure from Egypt by way of the Erythraean sea, and so sailed into the southern ocean. When autumn came, they went ashore, wherever they might happen to be, and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut. Having reaped it, they again set sail; and thus it came to pass that two whole years went by, and it was not till the third year that they doubled the Pillars of Hercules, and made good their voyage home. On their return, they declared- I for my part do not believe them, but perhaps others may- that in sailing round Libya they had the sun upon their right hand. In this way was the extent of Libya first discovered." So Herodotus passes on us a piece of information he doesn't understand or believe in, but that seems to prove that the circumnavigation of Africa actually happened because the sailors, having passed the equator, kept seeing the sun on their right side at midday- since they were moving clockwise around the continent. Shivers :)

aristophenes 8y ago
Those poor Phoenicians, expertly conducted a long and dangerous voyage of exploration, and afterwards most of their contemporaries probably thought they were lazy incompetent liars who wasted time for a few years before coming back.
HarryHirsch 8y ago
livius.org has a most excellent commentary on Pharaoh Necho's expedition. It starts here: https://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-on-the-first-circumnavigation-of-africa/ https://www.livius.org/sources/content/herodotus/herodotus-o... Livius is what we all think the WWW should look like, but instead we ended up with Facebook.
kwelstr 8y ago
"...and having sown a tract of land with corn, waited until the grain was fit to cut." It has to be a grain other than corn (maize), since that one came from the Americas.
- amvalo 8y ago
  Corn was actually a generic term.
  - cygx 8y ago
    It still is in British English (though this is apparently beginning to change? Bloody Americans :p).
    - kwhitefoot 8y ago
      It's generic in Norwegian too, although spelled with a k.
  - kwhitefoot 8y ago
    Corn still is a generic term.

gmoot 8y ago

It's not just Herodotus; many ancient works create this impression. We have this implicit chronological snobbery because of our technology achievements, but when you read ancient works you realize that they were just as smart as we are.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> when you read ancient works you realize that they were just as smart as we are. When you read ancient works the impression you get is heavily distorted by survivorship bias; it's not like we've preserved a representative sample of such works.
- gmoot 8y ago
  Sure? But at minimum they were no dumber then the extant works show. There are plenty of dumb people today too.

njharman 8y ago

> This is how a precise, scientifically-minded modern writer would communicate. His technical descriptions of boats kind of sucked though.

lou1306 8y ago

I suggest you give Xenophon a try next. Anabasis is a great adventure book, with a crystal-clear style (possibly even more so than Erodotus').

everdrive 8y ago
I'll do just that, thanks for the recommendation!