6 ms·

For anyone just skimming comments - this is a very well written, well researched, thoughtful, and objective piece. That's pretty rare in today's climate. Defi

by axaxs 8y ago

For anyone just skimming comments - this is a very well written, well researched, thoughtful, and objective piece. That's pretty rare in today's climate. Definitely worth the read. It's the first time I can remember signing up for a newsletter voluntarily, despite my general distaste for those types of popovers.

jjoonathan 8y ago
The introduction's tacky and condescending tone lost me. Does it get better?
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  It gets better
- Disruptive_Dave 8y ago
  Same here, I ducked out. The title as well.
  - unethical_ban 8y ago
    Are there actually Trump supporters on Hacker News?
    - mistermann 8y ago
      Yes.
    - AgentME 8y ago
      I hate Trump and I found the intro tacky. The equivalence made it seem like the criticisms of Trump were arbitrary, held only because I'm on the opposite side of him.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      I wouldn't call myself a Trump supporter. But then, there hasn't been a presidential candidate in decades who I could wholeheartedly support. And yet I do like some of his stated positions. Even though I don't trust him any more than I trusted Obama, Bush, Clinton or Reagan. Or much less, really.
    - tailrecursion 8y ago
      Trump supporters? On Hacker News? Inconceivable.
      - dang 8y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418788
    - dang 8y ago
      "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- axaxs 8y ago
  I didn't like the intro either. The rest of the article is much better.
- abvdasker 8y ago
  Came here to say this. The intro seemed to think it was much more clever than it really is. It's very easy to pick descriptive language vague enough that it applies to multiple subjects. I had to stop reading after that.
  - throwaway287391 8y ago
    If you're writing long-form data driven thinkpieces and actually think half of your readers are Trump supporters, you might need a reality check...
    - alehul 8y ago
      You're generalizing 62,984,828 Americans. When you look at a number like that, combined with all the possible reasons that people voted for Trump (think those who validly wished for a Ross Perot victory in 1992), it just seems rude and unnecessary to say this.
      - throwaway287391 8y ago
        I get why you'd think it's rude/unnecessary, but I don't think it's a generalization to say it's very unlikely that anywhere near half of the audience of a blog post like this is on Team Trump. I'm sure there are Trump supporters that read and digest this kind of content regularly, but any familiarity with the typical cultural attitudes and media consumption patterns of Trump supporters makes it obvious that that's far from the norm.
        witcherchaos 8y ago
        There's plenty of Trump supporters in silicon valley. We may be democrats previously, but we really like what Trump did against China, even though the large corporations (who owns mass media) hated the move. Trump rejuvenated the economy, increased competitiveness of American firms, and helped to increase jobs and wages for American workers. He stood up against dictatorship China and is winning the trade war. He is a very flawed man, but he did great for America
- xtiansimon 8y ago
  "condescending"? Was there a particular passage which you feel had the 'superior talking down to inferior' characteristic? Dialectical arguments tend to long, boring, and esoterical. I found the intro a mix of jocular and dialectical, which for me turned out to be the payoff for some of the article's repetitiveness.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- mirimir 8y ago
  Yes.
- mark_l_watson 8y ago
  I think it does. The ending is the most interesting part, so perhaps browse there?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
ajmurmann 8y ago
If you like this article, I recommend the Martin Gurri book that is frequently chief in the article: "The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium". This article reads largely like a summary of that book. You'll also enjoy his blog https://thefifthwave.wordpress.com/ https://thefifthwave.wordpress.com/
- axaxs 8y ago
  Thank you, I will check them out!
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  thanks for that. Marc Andreessen did a thread on this with some highlights that make me want to read it https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1015665031474606081 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1015665031474606081
baybal2 8y ago
Indeed, very insightful. I myself is of similar opinion. The West is undeniably having a societal crisis now, regardless of what digits say about its economic wellbeing. The West these days reminds me of USSR in the eighties.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Now that you mention it, it does. Perhaps sadly enough.
mirimir 8y ago
Damn. This is the most coherent discussion of the Internet's impact that I've ever seen. Yes, it's a little smug. And it's long. But it's well worth the read. And hey, it's kept me from commenting for several hours, as I've read it in breaks from work.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

by axaxs 8y ago

jjoonathan 8y ago

The introduction's tacky and condescending tone lost me. Does it get better?

WillPostForFood 8y ago
It gets better
Disruptive_Dave 8y ago
Same here, I ducked out. The title as well.
- unethical_ban 8y ago
  Are there actually Trump supporters on Hacker News?
  - mistermann 8y ago
    Yes.
  - AgentME 8y ago
    I hate Trump and I found the intro tacky. The equivalence made it seem like the criticisms of Trump were arbitrary, held only because I'm on the opposite side of him.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    I wouldn't call myself a Trump supporter. But then, there hasn't been a presidential candidate in decades who I could wholeheartedly support. And yet I do like some of his stated positions. Even though I don't trust him any more than I trusted Obama, Bush, Clinton or Reagan. Or much less, really.
  - tailrecursion 8y ago
    Trump supporters? On Hacker News? Inconceivable.
    - dang 8y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418788 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19418788
  - dang 8y ago
    "Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
axaxs 8y ago
I didn't like the intro either. The rest of the article is much better.
abvdasker 8y ago
Came here to say this. The intro seemed to think it was much more clever than it really is. It's very easy to pick descriptive language vague enough that it applies to multiple subjects. I had to stop reading after that.
- throwaway287391 8y ago
  If you're writing long-form data driven thinkpieces and actually think half of your readers are Trump supporters, you might need a reality check...
  - alehul 8y ago
    You're generalizing 62,984,828 Americans. When you look at a number like that, combined with all the possible reasons that people voted for Trump (think those who validly wished for a Ross Perot victory in 1992), it just seems rude and unnecessary to say this.
    - throwaway287391 8y ago
      I get why you'd think it's rude/unnecessary, but I don't think it's a generalization to say it's very unlikely that anywhere near half of the audience of a blog post like this is on Team Trump. I'm sure there are Trump supporters that read and digest this kind of content regularly, but any familiarity with the typical cultural attitudes and media consumption patterns of Trump supporters makes it obvious that that's far from the norm.
      - witcherchaos 8y ago
        There's plenty of Trump supporters in silicon valley. We may be democrats previously, but we really like what Trump did against China, even though the large corporations (who owns mass media) hated the move. Trump rejuvenated the economy, increased competitiveness of American firms, and helped to increase jobs and wages for American workers. He stood up against dictatorship China and is winning the trade war. He is a very flawed man, but he did great for America
xtiansimon 8y ago
"condescending"? Was there a particular passage which you feel had the 'superior talking down to inferior' characteristic? Dialectical arguments tend to long, boring, and esoterical. I found the intro a mix of jocular and dialectical, which for me turned out to be the payoff for some of the article's repetitiveness.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
mirimir 8y ago
Yes.
mark_l_watson 8y ago
I think it does. The ending is the most interesting part, so perhaps browse there?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

ajmurmann 8y ago

If you like this article, I recommend the Martin Gurri book that is frequently chief in the article: "The Revolt of the Public and the Crisis of Authority in the New Millennium". This article reads largely like a summary of that book. You'll also enjoy his blog https://thefifthwave.wordpress.com/ https://thefifthwave.wordpress.com/

axaxs 8y ago
Thank you, I will check them out!
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
thanks for that. Marc Andreessen did a thread on this with some highlights that make me want to read it https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1015665031474606081 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1015665031474606081

baybal2 8y ago

Indeed, very insightful. I myself is of similar opinion. The West is undeniably having a societal crisis now, regardless of what digits say about its economic wellbeing. The West these days reminds me of USSR in the eighties.

mirimir 8y ago
Now that you mention it, it does. Perhaps sadly enough.

mirimir 8y ago

Damn. This is the most coherent discussion of the Internet's impact that I've ever seen. Yes, it's a little smug. And it's long. But it's well worth the read. And hey, it's kept me from commenting for several hours, as I've read it in breaks from work.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]