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A Master’s is as much graduate level in Europe as in the US. If you go in expecting to do the same level of work you did in your Bachelor’s you might scrape a p

A Master’s is as much graduate level in Europe as in the US. If you go in expecting to do the same level of work you did in your Bachelor’s you might scrape a pass but that’s as well as you’re going to do. This is not to deny there’s an enormous difference between doing research and doing coursework but an M.Phil. student is doing research much as a Ph.D. student is. They’re getting a Master’s as much as someone doing all coursework for an MBA.

unithrowaway 8y ago
Personal anecdote: I did relatively poorly for my Bachelor's, finishing with a GPA of about 2.7. I attended most lectures anywhere from 70 to 95% of the time. I was treating University like school; I went to the lectures just to listen. The week before the exam, I scrolled through the slides once, making sure I understand the material. However, understanding versus being able to fill in the answers to pre-selected types of assignments within barely more the time than it takes to thoroughly read all the questions are two very different and mostly independent skills. During my Master's, I can count on one hand the number of times I went to a lecture hall. Instead I spent my time relaxing at home. Every once-in-a-while, I registered for a bunch of exams, which would then force me to go through the lecture slides at home and practice solving some old exams. I graduated the Master's with 4.0 GPA.
Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago
Europe is very diverse. As a university professor in Spain, I can say your parent comment is an accurate description of Spanish Master's degrees. In fact, the Spanish system used to be based on 5-year and even 6-year degrees. In the last university reform (triggered by the Bologna process), most universities just split their existing degrees into a 4-year Bachelor's and a 1 or 2-year Master's and called it a day. So the Master's is seen just as a natural continuation of the Bachelor's and those who go to the job market with a Bachelor's as impatient people who are working with an incomplete degree. Now universities are also offering new Master's which aren't based on the traditional degrees, and those sometimes feel more "graduate", but they're not the majority at the moment.
- blub 8y ago
  Ok, but the 6 years in Spain were 4 years for a Bachelor and 2 years for a Master right? So I think that the new Bologna system must be 3 + 1.5 or something like that. At least that's how I've seen it implemented in some countries. To me the 4 year Bachelor's was always a complete degree. It's the 3 year that's arguably not.
roel_v 8y ago
I should probably have clarified that by 'European' I meant 'continental European'.

unithrowaway 8y ago

Personal anecdote: I did relatively poorly for my Bachelor's, finishing with a GPA of about 2.7. I attended most lectures anywhere from 70 to 95% of the time. I was treating University like school; I went to the lectures just to listen. The week before the exam, I scrolled through the slides once, making sure I understand the material. However, understanding versus being able to fill in the answers to pre-selected types of assignments within barely more the time than it takes to thoroughly read all the questions are two very different and mostly independent skills. During my Master's, I can count on one hand the number of times I went to a lecture hall. Instead I spent my time relaxing at home. Every once-in-a-while, I registered for a bunch of exams, which would then force me to go through the lecture slides at home and practice solving some old exams. I graduated the Master's with 4.0 GPA.

Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago

Europe is very diverse. As a university professor in Spain, I can say your parent comment is an accurate description of Spanish Master's degrees. In fact, the Spanish system used to be based on 5-year and even 6-year degrees. In the last university reform (triggered by the Bologna process), most universities just split their existing degrees into a 4-year Bachelor's and a 1 or 2-year Master's and called it a day. So the Master's is seen just as a natural continuation of the Bachelor's and those who go to the job market with a Bachelor's as impatient people who are working with an incomplete degree. Now universities are also offering new Master's which aren't based on the traditional degrees, and those sometimes feel more "graduate", but they're not the majority at the moment.

blub 8y ago
Ok, but the 6 years in Spain were 4 years for a Bachelor and 2 years for a Master right? So I think that the new Bologna system must be 3 + 1.5 or something like that. At least that's how I've seen it implemented in some countries. To me the 4 year Bachelor's was always a complete degree. It's the 3 year that's arguably not.

roel_v 8y ago

I should probably have clarified that by 'European' I meant 'continental European'.