4 ms·

Nitrogen-fixing trees “eat” rocks, play pivotal role in forest health

132 points by ph0rque 8y ago

JohnL4 8y ago
Underground rocks are not static. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saprolite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saprolite
Nydhal 8y ago
Nitrogen fixation is an important part of permaculture. Oregon State offers an online certificate in the subject. https://pace.oregonstate.edu/catalog/permaculture-design-certificate-online https://pace.oregonstate.edu/catalog/permaculture-design-cer...
- 2sk21 8y ago
  Permaculture is going to become a very important subject for study. I have recently gotten interested in the subject and the results have been amazing even in very unpromising conditions. Geoff Lawtons work in Jordan is inspiring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk
  - zeristor 8y ago
    Greening the desert, I've been following that for months, after watching the Oregon YouTube channel on permaculture. I've just spent an hour following up on Managed Aquifer Recharge, albeit not entirely relevant in my part of Europe. To bring it back to HN, I keep thinking there must be ways to model landscapes, and planting strategies to increase permaculture efficiency, although probably the antithesis of permaculture. The issue seems to be putting plants together so they can support each other in close quarters, sounds like an optimisation problem to me, I've called it augmented permaculture before.
    - ph0rque 8y ago
      Your description of an app for designing / modeling edible landscapes with permaculture principles in mind is exactly what I am working on: https://automicrofarm.com/app/ https://automicrofarm.com/app/ In fact, I thought about creating a "digital twin" for your edible landscape, and wrote about it here: https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/11/digital-twin.html https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/11/digital-twin.html
- benj111 8y ago
  As we're on the subject. Has anyone got any good pointers to any actually scientifically sound research/advice on gardening/growing crops on a smaller scale. The amount of rubbish I've heard spouted by gardeners about what you should and shouldn't do is crazy. And I'm not even talking about the more 'spiritual' side. Even seemingly mainstream type stuff like companion planting isn't internally consistent.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  I’d love to buy an acre somewhere and just set up a food forest.
viburnum 8y ago
In the lowland northwest, red alder is typically the first tree to get established after a disturbance.
kazinator 8y ago
Boy what clickbait! :) "red alder ... through its symbiotic relationship with nitrogen-fixing bacteria" That's more like it. No such thing as a nitrogen-fixing tree, as far as we know; only micro-organisms perform nitrogen fixation.
- strainer 8y ago
  Its not clickbait, its just efficient language. We have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria in our gut but don't explicitly distinguish it every time we refer to human digestion. Actually this article and study is not intending to reveal anything new about how trees and other plants fix nitrogen (using microbes). It is revealing that the symbiotic arrangements (far from entirely understood) also cause the breakdown and release of scarce nutrients from rocks, enabling increased growth and building soil fertility over time.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    We wouldn't say that a people perform some very specific, detailed process that is attributed to gut bacteria. E.g. "humans break down oligosaccharides". Digestion, as such, is a concept independent of gut bacteria.
- benj111 8y ago
  Peas and legumes 'fix nitrogen' using the same mechanism. Dairy farmers produce milk, gardeners grow plants, I brew beer. Creating a situation where something you want to happen, happens, generally means attributing the thing to whoever set the situation up.
  - kazinator 8y ago
    "Nitrogen-fixing" is a very specific term: it refers to the chemical process by which nitrogen is drawn from the atmosphere. A dairy farm produces milk, but it doesn't lactate. Gardeners do not photosynthesize.
    - 8y ago
mudil 8y ago
Interesting fact is that red alder trees are used for fancy furniture, and it's the wood used in Fender Stratocaster guitars. It's also probably the best wood for smoking fish.

132 points by ph0rque 8y ago

Underground rocks are not static. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saprolite https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saprolite

Nitrogen fixation is an important part of permaculture. Oregon State offers an online certificate in the subject. https://pace.oregonstate.edu/catalog/permaculture-design-certificate-online https://pace.oregonstate.edu/catalog/permaculture-design-cer...

2sk21 8y ago
Permaculture is going to become a very important subject for study. I have recently gotten interested in the subject and the results have been amazing even in very unpromising conditions. Geoff Lawtons work in Jordan is inspiring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk
- zeristor 8y ago
  Greening the desert, I've been following that for months, after watching the Oregon YouTube channel on permaculture. I've just spent an hour following up on Managed Aquifer Recharge, albeit not entirely relevant in my part of Europe. To bring it back to HN, I keep thinking there must be ways to model landscapes, and planting strategies to increase permaculture efficiency, although probably the antithesis of permaculture. The issue seems to be putting plants together so they can support each other in close quarters, sounds like an optimisation problem to me, I've called it augmented permaculture before.
  - ph0rque 8y ago
    Your description of an app for designing / modeling edible landscapes with permaculture principles in mind is exactly what I am working on: https://automicrofarm.com/app/ https://automicrofarm.com/app/ In fact, I thought about creating a "digital twin" for your edible landscape, and wrote about it here: https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/11/digital-twin.html https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/11/digital-twin.html
benj111 8y ago
As we're on the subject. Has anyone got any good pointers to any actually scientifically sound research/advice on gardening/growing crops on a smaller scale. The amount of rubbish I've heard spouted by gardeners about what you should and shouldn't do is crazy. And I'm not even talking about the more 'spiritual' side. Even seemingly mainstream type stuff like companion planting isn't internally consistent.
mrfusion 8y ago
I’d love to buy an acre somewhere and just set up a food forest.

viburnum 8y ago

In the lowland northwest, red alder is typically the first tree to get established after a disturbance.

kazinator 8y ago

Boy what clickbait! :) "red alder ... through its symbiotic relationship with nitrogen-fixing bacteria" That's more like it. No such thing as a nitrogen-fixing tree, as far as we know; only micro-organisms perform nitrogen fixation.

strainer 8y ago
Its not clickbait, its just efficient language. We have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria in our gut but don't explicitly distinguish it every time we refer to human digestion. Actually this article and study is not intending to reveal anything new about how trees and other plants fix nitrogen (using microbes). It is revealing that the symbiotic arrangements (far from entirely understood) also cause the breakdown and release of scarce nutrients from rocks, enabling increased growth and building soil fertility over time.
- kazinator 8y ago
  We wouldn't say that a people perform some very specific, detailed process that is attributed to gut bacteria. E.g. "humans break down oligosaccharides". Digestion, as such, is a concept independent of gut bacteria.
benj111 8y ago
Peas and legumes 'fix nitrogen' using the same mechanism. Dairy farmers produce milk, gardeners grow plants, I brew beer. Creating a situation where something you want to happen, happens, generally means attributing the thing to whoever set the situation up.
- kazinator 8y ago
  "Nitrogen-fixing" is a very specific term: it refers to the chemical process by which nitrogen is drawn from the atmosphere. A dairy farm produces milk, but it doesn't lactate. Gardeners do not photosynthesize.
  - 8y ago

mudil 8y ago

Interesting fact is that red alder trees are used for fancy furniture, and it's the wood used in Fender Stratocaster guitars. It's also probably the best wood for smoking fish.