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'Delete Facebook now': WhatsApp co-founder gives a talk at Stanford

33 points by elsewhen 8y ago

gamblor956 8y ago
That's rich. Hundreds of people have been hurt out killed because of misinformation spread by WhatsApp. Moreover, this guy was one of the reasons that it took so long for WhatsApp to do anything about it.
- rando444 8y ago
  Why should a messaging provider be responsible for the content of private messages users send each other? Can you elaborate on what event you are referring to that required corporate intervention?
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    In India, South Africa, Egypt, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, there have been multiple instances of lynch mobs killing innocent men accused of organ harvesting or kidnapping via messages forwarded through WhatsApp. WhatsApp was used to organize religious mobs in India resulting in the deaths of dozens. WhatsApp is currently being used by the BJP in India to organize criminal campaigns of harassment against non-Hindus, cattle farmers, and even simply those who criticize or politically oppose the BJP. After roughly a dozen men were killed in lynch mobs, Facebook was pressured into making changes to WhatsApp, including limiting how many times a message could be forwarded, and to who. Facebook also forced WhatsApp to add a unique identifier to messages so that chains could be traced to their source, so that future instigators of mob violence could be prosecuted. The WhatsApp founder disagreed with these changes and promptly began badmouthing Facebook. But almost immediately after those changes were implemented, the lynch mobs stopped. Note that it's pretty easy to get around the unique identifier. WhatsApp is tied to a phone number, so criminal and political organizations can just buy burner sims for use with WhatsApp. But it does make a huge difference out in the countryside, where most people can barely afford a single sim card, let alone a burner to use for trolling.
    - BubRoss 8y ago
      Do you blame the phone companies for crimes organized by phone calls?
- chillacy 8y ago
  Your comment seems to attribute a lot of agency to a piece of communication software.. what about “misinformation spread by people”?
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    I agree that misinformation is spread by people. The WhatsApp guy has been pretty consisting in blaming Facebook for modern society's problems. But while Facebook has been used to spread propaganda in Western countries during election cycles, it's use for these purposes is easily counteracted by other news/media sources. And Facebook eventually does, of its own accord, act to limit its use for propaganda, revenge porn, etc. In contrast, WhatsApp is frequently the only source of news for many of the people that use in, and in multiple countries it's been used to spread fake news that has resulted in the death of hundreds of innocent people. Riots, lynch mobs, etc. And the WhatsApp guy knew this. And explicitly chose, for years as people were being lynched, to do nothing whatsoever to limit the effect of fake news spreading through the app. Facebook had to force WhatsApp to change the app (by limiting forwarded messages, etc.), and that just happens to be the same time he started badmouthing Facebook everywhere. My point is basically that this guy has a beef with Facebook, but he and his app are objectively worse for society than Facebook.
rum3 8y ago
> 'It was not extraordinarily money-making, and if you have a billion users ... you're going to have $1 billion in revenue per year," he said. "That's not what Google and Facebook want. They want multibillions of dollars." > Acton said they pushed for a model that would charge users $1 a year instead of using an advertising model for profit. So first he sells out his company because he is not happy being rich, he wants to be filthy rich. And now afterwards he is pretending like he actually cares about users and normal people, and is calling out someone else for being greedy.
- rando444 8y ago
  He could have been filthy rich if he would have gone through the whole thing. He walked out on the deal early leaving a huge amount of money on the table because he disagreed with the direction Facebook was taking with whatsapp.
  - rum3 8y ago
    > Acton told Forbes that he left over a dispute with Facebook regarding monetization of WhatsApp, and voluntarily left $850 million in unvested options on the table by leaving a few months before vesting was completed. (Source: Wikipedia) I am not even sure what this means but it does not change the fact that he co-founded whatsapp and he did sell it to Facebook in 2014 and it was very clear even back then that they had no good intentions. Also, he IS filthy rich even without these 850 million.

33 points by elsewhen 8y ago

That's rich. Hundreds of people have been hurt out killed because of misinformation spread by WhatsApp. Moreover, this guy was one of the reasons that it took so long for WhatsApp to do anything about it.

rando444 8y ago
Why should a messaging provider be responsible for the content of private messages users send each other? Can you elaborate on what event you are referring to that required corporate intervention?
- gamblor956 8y ago
  In India, South Africa, Egypt, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, and Thailand, there have been multiple instances of lynch mobs killing innocent men accused of organ harvesting or kidnapping via messages forwarded through WhatsApp. WhatsApp was used to organize religious mobs in India resulting in the deaths of dozens. WhatsApp is currently being used by the BJP in India to organize criminal campaigns of harassment against non-Hindus, cattle farmers, and even simply those who criticize or politically oppose the BJP. After roughly a dozen men were killed in lynch mobs, Facebook was pressured into making changes to WhatsApp, including limiting how many times a message could be forwarded, and to who. Facebook also forced WhatsApp to add a unique identifier to messages so that chains could be traced to their source, so that future instigators of mob violence could be prosecuted. The WhatsApp founder disagreed with these changes and promptly began badmouthing Facebook. But almost immediately after those changes were implemented, the lynch mobs stopped. Note that it's pretty easy to get around the unique identifier. WhatsApp is tied to a phone number, so criminal and political organizations can just buy burner sims for use with WhatsApp. But it does make a huge difference out in the countryside, where most people can barely afford a single sim card, let alone a burner to use for trolling.
  - BubRoss 8y ago
    Do you blame the phone companies for crimes organized by phone calls?
chillacy 8y ago
Your comment seems to attribute a lot of agency to a piece of communication software.. what about “misinformation spread by people”?
- gamblor956 8y ago
  I agree that misinformation is spread by people. The WhatsApp guy has been pretty consisting in blaming Facebook for modern society's problems. But while Facebook has been used to spread propaganda in Western countries during election cycles, it's use for these purposes is easily counteracted by other news/media sources. And Facebook eventually does, of its own accord, act to limit its use for propaganda, revenge porn, etc. In contrast, WhatsApp is frequently the only source of news for many of the people that use in, and in multiple countries it's been used to spread fake news that has resulted in the death of hundreds of innocent people. Riots, lynch mobs, etc. And the WhatsApp guy knew this. And explicitly chose, for years as people were being lynched, to do nothing whatsoever to limit the effect of fake news spreading through the app. Facebook had to force WhatsApp to change the app (by limiting forwarded messages, etc.), and that just happens to be the same time he started badmouthing Facebook everywhere. My point is basically that this guy has a beef with Facebook, but he and his app are objectively worse for society than Facebook.

rum3 8y ago

> 'It was not extraordinarily money-making, and if you have a billion users ... you're going to have $1 billion in revenue per year," he said. "That's not what Google and Facebook want. They want multibillions of dollars." > Acton said they pushed for a model that would charge users $1 a year instead of using an advertising model for profit. So first he sells out his company because he is not happy being rich, he wants to be filthy rich. And now afterwards he is pretending like he actually cares about users and normal people, and is calling out someone else for being greedy.

rando444 8y ago
He could have been filthy rich if he would have gone through the whole thing. He walked out on the deal early leaving a huge amount of money on the table because he disagreed with the direction Facebook was taking with whatsapp.
- rum3 8y ago
  > Acton told Forbes that he left over a dispute with Facebook regarding monetization of WhatsApp, and voluntarily left $850 million in unvested options on the table by leaving a few months before vesting was completed. (Source: Wikipedia) I am not even sure what this means but it does not change the fact that he co-founded whatsapp and he did sell it to Facebook in 2014 and it was very clear even back then that they had no good intentions. Also, he IS filthy rich even without these 850 million.