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Everyone is so defensive about laptops here that you’d think they feel threatened by this post. Isn’t it in the spirit of the hacker community to be open to new

by vlunkr 8y ago

Everyone is so defensive about laptops here that you’d think they feel threatened by this post. Isn’t it in the spirit of the hacker community to be open to new modes of using computers? This is an experiment, that’s why they documented it and stated clearly that it’s an experiment. It’s something to think about and discuss, not a statement that you should throw your laptop out.

farslan 8y ago
OP here: Thanks for the comment. I thought I was clear that this was an experiment and that I wanted to try out things. Now that I'm using it for couple of months, I have even more things to share that are not covered by my blog post.
- lordleft 8y ago
  Thanks for the article - as a developer with an iPad Pro, it was fun reading your thoughts. I haven't tried coding on it, but I love it as a supplementary machine.
  - bosie 8y ago
    Mind expanding on how you use it as a supplementary machine? Any specific workflow you can share?
    - snazz 8y ago
      I use my iPad for email (reading and sorting; I write it so rarely anyway), HN-browsing, and as another screen for documentation or whatever. I think that’s about the limit of its capabilities. My biggest complaint is still how limited the interaction between apps is and how walled-off they are from one another: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19207796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19207796
- a-saleh 8y ago
  Would you be willing to try: a) some IOS-native IDE, i.e. http://continuous.codes/ http://continuous.codes/ ? b) how would android fare in comparison? I.e. I really like termux project, it seems to have much more installable packages than i.e. blink, and it could alleviate the need to run separate session in a separate box over the internet. Similarly, because android is based on linux, there are projects for running linux distros alongside (mostly in chroot?). I am currently trying to learn Ocaml on my android phone on my way to work with Termux :)
  - snazz 8y ago
    Termux is awesome. iSH (https://ish.app https://ish.app) is trying to accomplish the same thing for iOS, but it might not be approved by Apple because it may break the current set of App Store policies. Termux also does not have the overhead of running a complete x86 emulator. I’ve never needed to, but the possibility of running Xorg (with a real window manager) on my phone is mind-blowing, even if it’s uncomfortable without a keyboard and mouse.
- tosh 8y ago
  +1 thanks for the writeup, I have a similar setup and reading the previous posts on blink et al was super helpful as well
- macspoofing 8y ago
  To be fair, this experiment has been run many many times since the the introduction of the iPad. I even tried it a few years ago because I liked the long battery life and the form factor (and after an HN article about iPad/Linode Dev setup[1]). Turns out lack of proper multitasking and multi-window management, and even lack of mouse support made everything cumbersome. Always needing a remote machine got old really fast too. No real benefit over a decent laptop. [1]http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-...
Macha 8y ago
People are worried of a "war on general purpose computing" scenario if even development work can be moved to locked down devices, I think
- mappu 8y ago
  Phones have completely replaced the use case of PCs for most people, we've accidentally reached a point where it's normal to grow up without a PC in the house. A friend of mine is a university tutor and complained about students showing up to work with only their phones. A growing-fraction of people are even writing long essays using only google docs on their phone (without even a bluetooth keyboard).
  - hopler 8y ago
    People who use phones instead of PC are handicapped on ways they may not even notice. People who have PCs notice the plunge in personal productivity when they try to do all their activities with a 5% size screen and typing with 20% of their fingers
- ahartmetz 8y ago
  Indeed. There will probably "always" be something like personal computers that give you full freedom, but the choices and prices are going to suck compared to now in case we enter a real post-PC world for the masses.
freehunter 8y ago
People who work in tech can be surprisingly resistant to change. Anything that threatens to alter someone's workflow will see a huge backlash from people who will always equate "different" with "worse". It's what happens when a cargo cult forms around Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
- macspoofing 8y ago
  I disagree. Programmers tend to go overboard when it comes to their dev machines. But if an iPad could really improve development, you can bet programmers would dump their $3k laptop workstations in a heartbeat.
orangecat 8y ago
If I'm "defensive", it's about ensuring a market for devices that are controlled by the user rather than a central authority. I'm all for investigating new form factors; personally I'm hoping for an unobtrusive heads-up display that can replicate an HD display anywhere. But I'm strongly opposed to abandoning computing freedom in such a transition.
arvinsim 8y ago
> It’s something to think about and discuss, not a statement that you should throw your laptop out. But that's exactly what the current marketing push is all about. When the first iPad Pro was released, nobody batted an eye because it wasn't pushed as a laptop replacement.
mr_toad 8y ago
Using an iPad right now, but not for development. I’ve tried it. It just doesn’t work. I don’t feel threatened, just exasperated by the limits. The hardware is severely constrained by the OS and software. One thing the iPad Pro is really good for is reading documentation. 13”, portrait mode, retina screen, sitting on the couch or in some quiet corner - it’s the bees knees.

by vlunkr 8y ago

farslan 8y ago

OP here: Thanks for the comment. I thought I was clear that this was an experiment and that I wanted to try out things. Now that I'm using it for couple of months, I have even more things to share that are not covered by my blog post.

lordleft 8y ago
Thanks for the article - as a developer with an iPad Pro, it was fun reading your thoughts. I haven't tried coding on it, but I love it as a supplementary machine.
- bosie 8y ago
  Mind expanding on how you use it as a supplementary machine? Any specific workflow you can share?
  - snazz 8y ago
    I use my iPad for email (reading and sorting; I write it so rarely anyway), HN-browsing, and as another screen for documentation or whatever. I think that’s about the limit of its capabilities. My biggest complaint is still how limited the interaction between apps is and how walled-off they are from one another: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19207796 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19207796
a-saleh 8y ago
Would you be willing to try: a) some IOS-native IDE, i.e. http://continuous.codes/ http://continuous.codes/ ? b) how would android fare in comparison? I.e. I really like termux project, it seems to have much more installable packages than i.e. blink, and it could alleviate the need to run separate session in a separate box over the internet. Similarly, because android is based on linux, there are projects for running linux distros alongside (mostly in chroot?). I am currently trying to learn Ocaml on my android phone on my way to work with Termux :)
- snazz 8y ago
  Termux is awesome. iSH (https://ish.app https://ish.app) is trying to accomplish the same thing for iOS, but it might not be approved by Apple because it may break the current set of App Store policies. Termux also does not have the overhead of running a complete x86 emulator. I’ve never needed to, but the possibility of running Xorg (with a real window manager) on my phone is mind-blowing, even if it’s uncomfortable without a keyboard and mouse.
tosh 8y ago
+1 thanks for the writeup, I have a similar setup and reading the previous posts on blink et al was super helpful as well
macspoofing 8y ago
To be fair, this experiment has been run many many times since the the introduction of the iPad. I even tried it a few years ago because I liked the long battery life and the form factor (and after an HN article about iPad/Linode Dev setup[1]). Turns out lack of proper multitasking and multi-window management, and even lack of mouse support made everything cumbersome. Always needing a remote machine got old really fast too. No real benefit over a decent laptop. [1]http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-for-an-ipad http://yieldthought.com/post/12239282034/swapped-my-macbook-...

Macha 8y ago

People are worried of a "war on general purpose computing" scenario if even development work can be moved to locked down devices, I think

mappu 8y ago
Phones have completely replaced the use case of PCs for most people, we've accidentally reached a point where it's normal to grow up without a PC in the house. A friend of mine is a university tutor and complained about students showing up to work with only their phones. A growing-fraction of people are even writing long essays using only google docs on their phone (without even a bluetooth keyboard).
- hopler 8y ago
  People who use phones instead of PC are handicapped on ways they may not even notice. People who have PCs notice the plunge in personal productivity when they try to do all their activities with a 5% size screen and typing with 20% of their fingers
ahartmetz 8y ago
Indeed. There will probably "always" be something like personal computers that give you full freedom, but the choices and prices are going to suck compared to now in case we enter a real post-PC world for the masses.

freehunter 8y ago

People who work in tech can be surprisingly resistant to change. Anything that threatens to alter someone's workflow will see a huge backlash from people who will always equate "different" with "worse". It's what happens when a cargo cult forms around Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

macspoofing 8y ago
I disagree. Programmers tend to go overboard when it comes to their dev machines. But if an iPad could really improve development, you can bet programmers would dump their $3k laptop workstations in a heartbeat.

orangecat 8y ago

If I'm "defensive", it's about ensuring a market for devices that are controlled by the user rather than a central authority. I'm all for investigating new form factors; personally I'm hoping for an unobtrusive heads-up display that can replicate an HD display anywhere. But I'm strongly opposed to abandoning computing freedom in such a transition.

arvinsim 8y ago

> It’s something to think about and discuss, not a statement that you should throw your laptop out. But that's exactly what the current marketing push is all about. When the first iPad Pro was released, nobody batted an eye because it wasn't pushed as a laptop replacement.

mr_toad 8y ago

Using an iPad right now, but not for development. I’ve tried it. It just doesn’t work. I don’t feel threatened, just exasperated by the limits. The hardware is severely constrained by the OS and software. One thing the iPad Pro is really good for is reading documentation. 13”, portrait mode, retina screen, sitting on the couch or in some quiet corner - it’s the bees knees.