4 ms·

very specifically: don't take the plane, don't got to work with your car, and live in high density housing.

by nraynaud 8y ago

thundergolfer 8y ago
And have a vegan/vegetarian diet.
- nostrademons 8y ago
  And don't have kids.
  - Iamhisalt 8y ago
    Especially if you are white.
  - t1lthesky 8y ago
    I think this is a misguided sentiment, and this article sums up the reasons why pretty well: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-14/want-to-help-fight-climate-change-have-more-children?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=view&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-view&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-14/want-t...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- crygin 8y ago
  Sarah Taber explained the complexity of this aspect of dietary environmentalism better than I ever could in this thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1006363775723888640 https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/100636377572388864... tl;dr: the effectiveness of vegetarian diets is dependent on local conditions. Vegetarianism in a globalized world relies on fossil-fuel-based transport or farming techniques.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006363772838170629.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006363772838170629.html
- VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
  And don't eat more food than you need! (Something 2/3rds of the American population--the ones that are overweight or obese--do!)
zanny 8y ago
And then rue in the fact your individual, or even the individual contributions of the personal lives of all citizens, are a sliver of a pie dominated by agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction. Almost all of which have much less impactful changes to make that aren't lifestyle shifting but who are not incentivized to without the regulatory initiative to force them to. Make whatever changes in your life you want, "every little bit helps", but remember that individual willpower and grit is taking a cup of water out of an ocean. You don't change the tide that way, you need to recognize the importance of political action to see the situation improve. For everyone who goes vegetarian instead of attending town halls or petitioning their representatives or staying home from protesting business waste they are missing the forest for the trees on what matters in environmentalism.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >And then rue in the fact your individual, or even the individual contributions of the personal lives of all citizens, are a sliver of a pie dominated by agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction. Agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction all exist to serve consumerism society. Our personal individual contributions might be just a tiny slice of it, but aggregated individual contributions are 100% of the problem. Society is us.
almost_usual 8y ago
If you live rural in a rural area, use solar for electricity, work remotely, and grow your own food you are probably producing a lot less garbage than someone in a high density major metro.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  nope, and by a very long shot.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Only if you don't count second and third order effects, to tout the usual "dense urban living".
Tempest1981 8y ago
Not disagreeing, but looking at global temperature readings, temps were almost flat from 1940-1980. Weren't those decades characterized by interstates and polluting cars, and people living in suburbia? At least in the US. Was the temperature ramp-up from 1980-2019 a delayed reaction? Or due to emerging nations getting industrialized? Graph: http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TimeSeries2017.png http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TimeSeri...
- avar 8y ago
  Within climate change what you're asking about is called TCRE or "transient climate response to cumulative carbon emissions". E.g. this research article should answer some of your questions. It's an analysis of historical temperature, CO^2 emissions, and the relation between the two: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsta.2016.0449 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsta.201... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_climate_response_to_cumulative_carbon_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_climate_response_to_...
- burlesona 8y ago
  Also note that US population was about 1/3 and 2/3 of present in 1940 and 1980 respectively. The developing world has grown a lot faster than that. So the number of people living the highest-carbon lifestyles is up while the number of people aspiring to do so is WAY up.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Not all reactions are linear. Some have discreet "breaking points", after which become visible. Also, if we compare 1980 to today, or even 2010, it's like the stone age re: production and consumption. Population was just 4.4B -- now it's 7.7, almost double. Large swaths were in far more dire poverty and much less consumption. Chinese industrial production was not a thing -- now it's the biggest industrial site in the world. The whole of USSR and Eastern Europe were communist (and would be for 10 years still). And even Americans consumed much much less than today. Consider how little gadgets and stuff the average person had in 1980. Even clothes were much more valued than today's "quick fashion". Malls where just starting to be built everywhere (now the world's a big mall, and the internet can deliver to your door in the next day, so they aren't even needed). US production here shows more than double too: https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-histo...
Waterluvian 8y ago
I was wondering how much I save by working from home. We have a single vehicle, an SUV. I fill it once every 6-7 weeks because we drive so little. It's actually quite amazing how much all the savings compound simply by working from home. I think that getting all these older managers on board with working from home as much as you can may be a colossal savings on all fronts.

very specifically: don't take the plane, don't got to work with your car, and live in high density housing.

thundergolfer 8y ago

And have a vegan/vegetarian diet.

nostrademons 8y ago
And don't have kids.
- Iamhisalt 8y ago
  Especially if you are white.
- t1lthesky 8y ago
  I think this is a misguided sentiment, and this article sums up the reasons why pretty well: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-14/want-to-help-fight-climate-change-have-more-children?utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_content=view&cmpid%3D=socialflow-twitter-view&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-03-14/want-t...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
crygin 8y ago
Sarah Taber explained the complexity of this aspect of dietary environmentalism better than I ever could in this thread on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1006363775723888640 https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/100636377572388864... tl;dr: the effectiveness of vegetarian diets is dependent on local conditions. Vegetarianism in a globalized world relies on fossil-fuel-based transport or farming techniques.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006363772838170629.html https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006363772838170629.html
VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
And don't eat more food than you need! (Something 2/3rds of the American population--the ones that are overweight or obese--do!)

zanny 8y ago

And then rue in the fact your individual, or even the individual contributions of the personal lives of all citizens, are a sliver of a pie dominated by agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction. Almost all of which have much less impactful changes to make that aren't lifestyle shifting but who are not incentivized to without the regulatory initiative to force them to. Make whatever changes in your life you want, "every little bit helps", but remember that individual willpower and grit is taking a cup of water out of an ocean. You don't change the tide that way, you need to recognize the importance of political action to see the situation improve. For everyone who goes vegetarian instead of attending town halls or petitioning their representatives or staying home from protesting business waste they are missing the forest for the trees on what matters in environmentalism.

coldtea 8y ago
>And then rue in the fact your individual, or even the individual contributions of the personal lives of all citizens, are a sliver of a pie dominated by agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction. Agriculture, manufacturing, and resource extraction all exist to serve consumerism society. Our personal individual contributions might be just a tiny slice of it, but aggregated individual contributions are 100% of the problem. Society is us.

almost_usual 8y ago

If you live rural in a rural area, use solar for electricity, work remotely, and grow your own food you are probably producing a lot less garbage than someone in a high density major metro.

nraynaud 8y ago
nope, and by a very long shot.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Only if you don't count second and third order effects, to tout the usual "dense urban living".

Tempest1981 8y ago

Not disagreeing, but looking at global temperature readings, temps were almost flat from 1940-1980. Weren't those decades characterized by interstates and polluting cars, and people living in suburbia? At least in the US. Was the temperature ramp-up from 1980-2019 a delayed reaction? Or due to emerging nations getting industrialized? Graph: http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TimeSeries2017.png http://berkeleyearth.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/TimeSeri...

avar 8y ago
Within climate change what you're asking about is called TCRE or "transient climate response to cumulative carbon emissions". E.g. this research article should answer some of your questions. It's an analysis of historical temperature, CO^2 emissions, and the relation between the two: https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsta.2016.0449 https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rsta.201... 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_climate_response_to_cumulative_carbon_emissions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_climate_response_to_...
burlesona 8y ago
Also note that US population was about 1/3 and 2/3 of present in 1940 and 1980 respectively. The developing world has grown a lot faster than that. So the number of people living the highest-carbon lifestyles is up while the number of people aspiring to do so is WAY up.
coldtea 8y ago
Not all reactions are linear. Some have discreet "breaking points", after which become visible. Also, if we compare 1980 to today, or even 2010, it's like the stone age re: production and consumption. Population was just 4.4B -- now it's 7.7, almost double. Large swaths were in far more dire poverty and much less consumption. Chinese industrial production was not a thing -- now it's the biggest industrial site in the world. The whole of USSR and Eastern Europe were communist (and would be for 10 years still). And even Americans consumed much much less than today. Consider how little gadgets and stuff the average person had in 1980. Even clothes were much more valued than today's "quick fashion". Malls where just starting to be built everywhere (now the world's a big mall, and the internet can deliver to your door in the next day, so they aren't even needed). US production here shows more than double too: https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-historical-chart https://www.macrotrends.net/2583/industrial-production-histo...

Waterluvian 8y ago

I was wondering how much I save by working from home. We have a single vehicle, an SUV. I fill it once every 6-7 weeks because we drive so little. It's actually quite amazing how much all the savings compound simply by working from home. I think that getting all these older managers on board with working from home as much as you can may be a colossal savings on all fronts.