6 ms·

Before the Internet (2017)

74 points by eodafbaloo 8y ago

jeffrallen 8y ago
Before the internet, parents of children with rare diseases watched them die without a doctor ever believing them. Before the internet, gay kids committed suicide, never even knowing how they felt was normal for some other people far away from their small town. Before the internet, if your county library didn't have it, it didn't exist. Before the internet, you had 3 TV channels, and you watched what the advertisers would pay for, not what you were curious about.
- VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
  Oh, please. I'm 56 years old and was gay before the internet. I didn't kill myself. And if my county library didn't have it, I went to the University library, or had the librarian do an inter-library load from other libraries in the State.
- cfmcdonald 8y ago
  Your earnest outrage is not really appropriate to the tone of the article. Did you see the part about crow telephathy?
- rdiddly 8y ago
  I mean, if we're going to go this route, then, after the internet, gay kids commit suicide because strangers far away can now bully them.
- greenyoda 8y ago
  > Before the internet, if your county library didn't have it, it didn't exist. Inter-library loans existed long before the internet. > Before the internet, you had 3 TV channels, and you watched what the advertisers would pay for, not what you were curious about. Cable TV with lots of channels existed long before streaming video was available on the web. Also, you could rent videos at Blockbuster (or borrow them for free at the local library). And you had ad-free public TV stations.
  - robbrown451 8y ago
    I've never done an interlibrary loan. Obviously, some did, but still. Cable and video rentals weren't available till I was in college. You're right that some of these things became available in limited quantities, or were available with a lot of effort, but overall the gist of what OP said captures the idea. Things are very different from when I grew up in the 70s/early 80s.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    > Inter-library loans existed long before the internet. And used bookstores. I loved those. You could find anything.
    - nine_k 8y ago
      You could find anything, but mostly by chance. Looking for a particular thing was hard. And, of course, you had to allocate 2-3 hours for the adventure, and traveling there and back again.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Sure, but people spend at least that much time browsing random stuff. Also, many stores did organize their collections, at least somewhat. When I was ~13, discovering New York City, I found a copy of Fortunes in Formulas for Home, Farm, and Workshop. And an ad in a comic book for a chemical company in Texas that sold fireworks supplies. Years of fun followed.
  - agumonkey 8y ago
    I wonder how book search systems were used, surely large library indexes existed but how efficient and how often they'd be used.. In a way, book searching is probably the only cool thing about internet IMO. The rest was already nice enough as it was. You don't need ultra high bandwidth and ultra low latency to find a VHS for a night with friends... it won't make the memories better.
    - asark 8y ago
- NegatioN 8y ago
  I'm going to assume you're honestly sticking up for the internet. I don't think this piece is contradicting to the fact the internet has brought lots of good things as well, especially in when it comes to making information accessible and easy to use/copy etc. But it's pointing out that we also lost something in that process. Which sometimes can be hard to put a finger on, seeing as it's mostly about letting ourselves be bored, letting ourself be inspired from something within.
amarte 8y ago
I loved reading this! 'Before the internet' pretty much coincides with 'when I was a kid' for me. I would love to hear 'before the internet' memories from people who were adults before the internet too.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Yeah, same here. What's especially sweet is the focus on ~clueless tween memories. And how it evokes that protective isolation from the "real world" that some children enjoyed. Mainly privileged children, but that's forgivable in a New Yorker article. That's gone now. I totally can't imagine how it is for kids now. I mean, I would be in such deep shit by my mid 20s.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Here's one from the "damn, that sucked" side: literature research. I spent days in libraries, digging through various indexes (that is, lots of large and heavy books) and taking notes. Then finding journals, and making copies on temperamental photocopy machines. Or "printing" from microfilm. And requesting stuff through inter-library loan.
  - ksaj 8y ago
    I actually enjoyed all of that, and still occasionally spend time pouring through the stacks. Right up until the "making copies" part. It goes very quickly (instantly?) downhill from there. I definitely get more out of physical paper where I can book mark, dog ear, underline, highlight and write in the margins than I've ever gotten from a digital copy. Except for the searching. I don't think we'll ever have a great hybrid, but pairing the two together is the way to go. Inter-branch loans haven't changed. I'm on 3 months now still waiting for one.
gdubs 8y ago
It still blows my mind that I used to make plans with friends to go see a movie a week in advance and everyone would just show up.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  I struggle to remember precisely how we did .. I know we did.. I know it involved theater programs and phoning .. but the concrete memory is gone as if it was fantasy
  - mirimir 8y ago
    There were these things called newspapers. They ran theater ads, at least a week in advance.
    - asark 8y ago
      Remember calling the theater's recorded schedule line? Then if someone bugged you at the wrong moment you'd miss the times for the one you needed and have to listen to the whole damn thing again?
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Yes, I do indeed. That was an intermediate technology level. And in some ways, not so much worse than the Internet.
    - adrianmonk 8y ago
      And/or, when you saw a movie, while you were at the theater, you'd just try to memorize the show times of any films you might be interested in seeing next weekend. Or you'd rely on what others told you about when/where they saw a movie. And if all that failed (or you didn't even try), sometimes you'd just show up at the movie theater around 7pm without having done any research at all and see whatever looked good based on movie posters, titles, and actors you recognized.
    - agumonkey 8y ago
iliaznk 8y ago
What a lovely piece!
daviddaviddavid 8y ago
Slightly off topic, but I've had a print subscription to The New Yorker for many years and I always read the Shouts & Murmurs satire pieces and the absolute most riotously funny one I've read is "Sunday Routine" by Jen Spyra: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/07/sunday-routine https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/07/sunday-routine
- jypepin 8y ago
  Same, TNY is the only publication we are still subscribed too and it's always a pleasure to read. Coming in weekly we are always behind, so they are all scattered around the house and actually pushes us to read more. The shouts and murmurs is definitely a great section!
adrianmonk 8y ago
Before the internet, high school reunions had a lot of suspense to them, because you didn't have Facebook and already know nearly everything about people you hadn't seen in N number of decades.
quickthrower2 8y ago
Did anyone use Teletext? I booked a holiday from an advert on there once. Of course you had to just phone them when you wanted to book. It was also good for a laugh playing Bamboozle [1]. It was like a mini internet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozle_(quiz) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozle_(quiz)
emayljames 8y ago
Catalogues. Toy shops. Newspapers. Libraries. The visual and structural meaning of these would be highly more enveloping of the imagination and the only source for curiosity. Definitely different times.
HocusLocus 8y ago
And there would be no way to look it up, no way to prove who was right, except if someone had a little booklet. “Anyone got a little booklet?” you’d ask, looking around. “Is there a booklet on this shit?” Wow! I actually had 'the booklet' when I was a kid. Carried it around with me. If you want to brighten a youngster's day, get it, https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Minerals-Golden-Nature-Guides/dp/B0006AUWR0/ https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Minerals-Golden-Nature-Guides/d...

74 points by eodafbaloo 8y ago

Before the internet, parents of children with rare diseases watched them die without a doctor ever believing them. Before the internet, gay kids committed suicide, never even knowing how they felt was normal for some other people far away from their small town. Before the internet, if your county library didn't have it, it didn't exist. Before the internet, you had 3 TV channels, and you watched what the advertisers would pay for, not what you were curious about.

VirtualAirwaves 8y ago
Oh, please. I'm 56 years old and was gay before the internet. I didn't kill myself. And if my county library didn't have it, I went to the University library, or had the librarian do an inter-library load from other libraries in the State.
cfmcdonald 8y ago
Your earnest outrage is not really appropriate to the tone of the article. Did you see the part about crow telephathy?
rdiddly 8y ago
I mean, if we're going to go this route, then, after the internet, gay kids commit suicide because strangers far away can now bully them.
greenyoda 8y ago
> Before the internet, if your county library didn't have it, it didn't exist. Inter-library loans existed long before the internet. > Before the internet, you had 3 TV channels, and you watched what the advertisers would pay for, not what you were curious about. Cable TV with lots of channels existed long before streaming video was available on the web. Also, you could rent videos at Blockbuster (or borrow them for free at the local library). And you had ad-free public TV stations.
- robbrown451 8y ago
  I've never done an interlibrary loan. Obviously, some did, but still. Cable and video rentals weren't available till I was in college. You're right that some of these things became available in limited quantities, or were available with a lot of effort, but overall the gist of what OP said captures the idea. Things are very different from when I grew up in the 70s/early 80s.
- mirimir 8y ago
  > Inter-library loans existed long before the internet. And used bookstores. I loved those. You could find anything.
  - nine_k 8y ago
    You could find anything, but mostly by chance. Looking for a particular thing was hard. And, of course, you had to allocate 2-3 hours for the adventure, and traveling there and back again.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Sure, but people spend at least that much time browsing random stuff. Also, many stores did organize their collections, at least somewhat. When I was ~13, discovering New York City, I found a copy of Fortunes in Formulas for Home, Farm, and Workshop. And an ad in a comic book for a chemical company in Texas that sold fireworks supplies. Years of fun followed.
- agumonkey 8y ago
  I wonder how book search systems were used, surely large library indexes existed but how efficient and how often they'd be used.. In a way, book searching is probably the only cool thing about internet IMO. The rest was already nice enough as it was. You don't need ultra high bandwidth and ultra low latency to find a VHS for a night with friends... it won't make the memories better.
  - asark 8y ago
NegatioN 8y ago
I'm going to assume you're honestly sticking up for the internet. I don't think this piece is contradicting to the fact the internet has brought lots of good things as well, especially in when it comes to making information accessible and easy to use/copy etc. But it's pointing out that we also lost something in that process. Which sometimes can be hard to put a finger on, seeing as it's mostly about letting ourselves be bored, letting ourself be inspired from something within.

amarte 8y ago

I loved reading this! 'Before the internet' pretty much coincides with 'when I was a kid' for me. I would love to hear 'before the internet' memories from people who were adults before the internet too.

mirimir 8y ago
Yeah, same here. What's especially sweet is the focus on ~clueless tween memories. And how it evokes that protective isolation from the "real world" that some children enjoyed. Mainly privileged children, but that's forgivable in a New Yorker article. That's gone now. I totally can't imagine how it is for kids now. I mean, I would be in such deep shit by my mid 20s.
mirimir 8y ago
Here's one from the "damn, that sucked" side: literature research. I spent days in libraries, digging through various indexes (that is, lots of large and heavy books) and taking notes. Then finding journals, and making copies on temperamental photocopy machines. Or "printing" from microfilm. And requesting stuff through inter-library loan.
- ksaj 8y ago
  I actually enjoyed all of that, and still occasionally spend time pouring through the stacks. Right up until the "making copies" part. It goes very quickly (instantly?) downhill from there. I definitely get more out of physical paper where I can book mark, dog ear, underline, highlight and write in the margins than I've ever gotten from a digital copy. Except for the searching. I don't think we'll ever have a great hybrid, but pairing the two together is the way to go. Inter-branch loans haven't changed. I'm on 3 months now still waiting for one.

gdubs 8y ago

It still blows my mind that I used to make plans with friends to go see a movie a week in advance and everyone would just show up.

agumonkey 8y ago
I struggle to remember precisely how we did .. I know we did.. I know it involved theater programs and phoning .. but the concrete memory is gone as if it was fantasy
- mirimir 8y ago
  There were these things called newspapers. They ran theater ads, at least a week in advance.
  - asark 8y ago
    Remember calling the theater's recorded schedule line? Then if someone bugged you at the wrong moment you'd miss the times for the one you needed and have to listen to the whole damn thing again?
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Yes, I do indeed. That was an intermediate technology level. And in some ways, not so much worse than the Internet.
  - adrianmonk 8y ago
    And/or, when you saw a movie, while you were at the theater, you'd just try to memorize the show times of any films you might be interested in seeing next weekend. Or you'd rely on what others told you about when/where they saw a movie. And if all that failed (or you didn't even try), sometimes you'd just show up at the movie theater around 7pm without having done any research at all and see whatever looked good based on movie posters, titles, and actors you recognized.
  - agumonkey 8y ago

iliaznk 8y ago

What a lovely piece!

daviddaviddavid 8y ago

Slightly off topic, but I've had a print subscription to The New Yorker for many years and I always read the Shouts & Murmurs satire pieces and the absolute most riotously funny one I've read is "Sunday Routine" by Jen Spyra: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/07/sunday-routine https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/07/sunday-routine

jypepin 8y ago
Same, TNY is the only publication we are still subscribed too and it's always a pleasure to read. Coming in weekly we are always behind, so they are all scattered around the house and actually pushes us to read more. The shouts and murmurs is definitely a great section!

adrianmonk 8y ago

Before the internet, high school reunions had a lot of suspense to them, because you didn't have Facebook and already know nearly everything about people you hadn't seen in N number of decades.

quickthrower2 8y ago

Did anyone use Teletext? I booked a holiday from an advert on there once. Of course you had to just phone them when you wanted to book. It was also good for a laugh playing Bamboozle [1]. It was like a mini internet. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozle_(quiz) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboozle_(quiz)

emayljames 8y ago

Catalogues. Toy shops. Newspapers. Libraries. The visual and structural meaning of these would be highly more enveloping of the imagination and the only source for curiosity. Definitely different times.

HocusLocus 8y ago

And there would be no way to look it up, no way to prove who was right, except if someone had a little booklet. “Anyone got a little booklet?” you’d ask, looking around. “Is there a booklet on this shit?” Wow! I actually had 'the booklet' when I was a kid. Carried it around with me. If you want to brighten a youngster's day, get it, https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Minerals-Golden-Nature-Guides/dp/B0006AUWR0/ https://www.amazon.com/Rocks-Minerals-Golden-Nature-Guides/d...