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It might be good for you and me say, because we can order stuff easily and cheaply ship it to us, but the economy is hurt because a whole lot of local jobs were

It might be good for you and me say, because we can order stuff easily and cheaply ship it to us, but the economy is hurt because a whole lot of local jobs were eliminated without many replacement jobs - there's an hourly amazon delivery worker plus a truck driver to the center maybe. Before there were retail workers, managers, mall security and janitors, trucks taking stuff to the mall. We don't have as good a jobs for a lot of those people.

Retra 8y ago
Fewer jobs is also progress. That's what the development of civilization and technology is all about. Anyway, there is still plenty of work for people to do. (There's no upper limit on the number of mathematicians society can use, for example.) It just isn't work that society is yet willing to pay a living wage for, and perhaps that's a problem.
- thundergolfer 8y ago
  I agree with you, but mathematicians aren't a good example when replying to a concern about job replacement for truck drivers. Training middle aged truck drivers to be mathematicians would be extremely difficult, expensive, and their math career would last 10-20years at best. Even if we do this right, we will face a lag where we have to deal with millions of middle-aged workers losing their jobs and not being able to participate in the very-high-level knowledge economy (eg. Mathematicans, Physicists, Philosphers)
  - Retra 8y ago
    >Training middle aged truck drivers to be mathematicians would be extremely difficult, expensive, and their math career would last 10-20years at best. I don't think these kinds of inefficiencies are as big of a problem when we're already talking about how their current jobs are so efficient we don't need human input anymore. In effect, they are so efficient at being truck drivers that they don't even need to be present, so we should pay them to do that job as well as they are, with the expectation that they put the extra time/effort into things we otherwise wouldn't pay for. Mathematics is just one example. Pretty much any volunteer work would do, or any creative/intellectual pursuit.
    - Latteland 8y ago
      Sorry but that's just naive from an american perspective. In the US if you get seriously hurt without health insurance you might just die. Politically it's not conceivable that we'll have UBI or pay people for not working. It's at the least a little controversial to pay UBI in most western countries. I see UBI as different than basic adequate social services so people don't live on the street or can get health insurance without it being tied to their job - the us is ridiculous in that way of course.

Retra 8y ago

Fewer jobs is also progress. That's what the development of civilization and technology is all about. Anyway, there is still plenty of work for people to do. (There's no upper limit on the number of mathematicians society can use, for example.) It just isn't work that society is yet willing to pay a living wage for, and perhaps that's a problem.

thundergolfer 8y ago
I agree with you, but mathematicians aren't a good example when replying to a concern about job replacement for truck drivers. Training middle aged truck drivers to be mathematicians would be extremely difficult, expensive, and their math career would last 10-20years at best. Even if we do this right, we will face a lag where we have to deal with millions of middle-aged workers losing their jobs and not being able to participate in the very-high-level knowledge economy (eg. Mathematicans, Physicists, Philosphers)
- Retra 8y ago
  >Training middle aged truck drivers to be mathematicians would be extremely difficult, expensive, and their math career would last 10-20years at best. I don't think these kinds of inefficiencies are as big of a problem when we're already talking about how their current jobs are so efficient we don't need human input anymore. In effect, they are so efficient at being truck drivers that they don't even need to be present, so we should pay them to do that job as well as they are, with the expectation that they put the extra time/effort into things we otherwise wouldn't pay for. Mathematics is just one example. Pretty much any volunteer work would do, or any creative/intellectual pursuit.
  - Latteland 8y ago
    Sorry but that's just naive from an american perspective. In the US if you get seriously hurt without health insurance you might just die. Politically it's not conceivable that we'll have UBI or pay people for not working. It's at the least a little controversial to pay UBI in most western countries. I see UBI as different than basic adequate social services so people don't live on the street or can get health insurance without it being tied to their job - the us is ridiculous in that way of course.