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Sorry if this sound naive, but I'm not American and I don't get why this is a scandal at all. Isn't it common knowledge that elite universities in the US admit

Sorry if this sound naive, but I'm not American and I don't get why this is a scandal at all. Isn't it common knowledge that elite universities in the US admit the children whose parents make a strong donation to the university? At least that's what most people think in my country. Perhaps it's a myth though, given that this has made the news?

Meekro 8y ago
People donate money to universities all the time in exchange for admission. But in this case, the bribes went to university employees -- who could be bought much cheaper than the university itself. The university was the victim of a fraud by its own employees.
- hashset 8y ago
  Meekro your pattern of saying the university is a victim here is laughable, almost like you're being paid to propagate it. You said yourself the University has been involved in this type of behavior for decades (centuries?) - employees like Athletic Directors, who also represent the University like admissions deans do it behind their back and its all of a sudden fraud against the University? Bullhonkey my good man
  - dhruvrrp 8y ago
    Getting into, lets say Stanford, on the basis of donations alone would be a few million dollars. Now if an Athletic Director takes a bribe of $50,000 (according to the articles) to get people in on sports scholarships and what not, then yes the University is a victim since it lost a few million dollars on the transaction.
    - hashset 8y ago
      Isn't a donation (bribe) such as this itself fraud on a much more significant level? Especially for tax-funded or subsidized institutions?
      - peteradio 8y ago
        If it is and you believe it to be so, then it is on you to explain. Why should anyone take time to advance arguments against your ghostly position?
        btrask 8y ago
        Because we're seekers of truth, not partisan sophists? Edit to clarify: I want to know the truth, so the burden of proof is always on me. If someone doesn't have the time or energy to make a full argument, I still appreciate their input. I will try to learn from it if I can. I don't want to silence people who can't write a book on a given topic.
        peteradio 8y ago
        I never asked for a book. This guy is making rhetorical questions equating donation to bribe. Sounds sophist to me and definitely deserving a challenge.
        hashset 8y ago
        Apologies, I thought it was established that some donations are highly likely bribes [0]. If you're questioning that basis I certainly don't have the interest to debate that with you. Assuming you agree on this premise, then I certainly am equating these types of donations to bribes. [0]: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-kushners-curious-acceptance-into-harvard https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-ku...
  - dang 8y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another commenter is. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
- thefounder 8y ago
  Classic example. The bribe didn't go to the right people. Of course some people must be held accountable!
ocschwar 8y ago
In this case, the bribes went to individuals at the universities, and not the universities themselves.
- pgeorgi 8y ago
  So effectively somebody tried to cut out the middle man and the universities worried about their income stream (ie getting their cut)?
  - krastanov 8y ago
    That income stream is what lets prestigious universities like the Ivies give great financial aid. Many people graduate from them with paying zero tuition. I can certainly complain about the efficiency with which this income is used and there are minor changes I would like to see to make this more transparent and clearly ethical, but it would be disingenuous to pretend they do not offer some of the best financial aid in the US.
    - hubxhiud 8y ago
      What a joke, the Ivy leagues are mostly hedgefunds and REITs with some education signaling attached. Losing out on a few extra rich people 'grants' are a rounding error.
      - zebraflask 8y ago
        As an Ivy grad, I think that that is an excessively cynical and inaccurate view. The educational value is real, regardless of how the universities handle their financials.
  - jacobolus 8y ago
    What the universities do (taking students in exchange for a donation of a new building or whatever) is not meritocratic, but it isn’t illegal. They are private institutions empowered to make shady deals. Individual employees taking bribes to put students in by pretending they are athletes is clear fraud.

Meekro 8y ago

People donate money to universities all the time in exchange for admission. But in this case, the bribes went to university employees -- who could be bought much cheaper than the university itself. The university was the victim of a fraud by its own employees.

hashset 8y ago
Meekro your pattern of saying the university is a victim here is laughable, almost like you're being paid to propagate it. You said yourself the University has been involved in this type of behavior for decades (centuries?) - employees like Athletic Directors, who also represent the University like admissions deans do it behind their back and its all of a sudden fraud against the University? Bullhonkey my good man
- dhruvrrp 8y ago
  Getting into, lets say Stanford, on the basis of donations alone would be a few million dollars. Now if an Athletic Director takes a bribe of $50,000 (according to the articles) to get people in on sports scholarships and what not, then yes the University is a victim since it lost a few million dollars on the transaction.
  - hashset 8y ago
    Isn't a donation (bribe) such as this itself fraud on a much more significant level? Especially for tax-funded or subsidized institutions?
    - peteradio 8y ago
      If it is and you believe it to be so, then it is on you to explain. Why should anyone take time to advance arguments against your ghostly position?
      - btrask 8y ago
        Because we're seekers of truth, not partisan sophists? Edit to clarify: I want to know the truth, so the burden of proof is always on me. If someone doesn't have the time or energy to make a full argument, I still appreciate their input. I will try to learn from it if I can. I don't want to silence people who can't write a book on a given topic.
        peteradio 8y ago
        I never asked for a book. This guy is making rhetorical questions equating donation to bribe. Sounds sophist to me and definitely deserving a challenge.
        hashset 8y ago
        Apologies, I thought it was established that some donations are highly likely bribes [0]. If you're questioning that basis I certainly don't have the interest to debate that with you. Assuming you agree on this premise, then I certainly am equating these types of donations to bribes. [0]: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-kushners-curious-acceptance-into-harvard https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-ku...
- dang 8y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong another commenter is. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and post civilly and substantively, or not at all.
thefounder 8y ago
Classic example. The bribe didn't go to the right people. Of course some people must be held accountable!

ocschwar 8y ago

In this case, the bribes went to individuals at the universities, and not the universities themselves.

pgeorgi 8y ago
So effectively somebody tried to cut out the middle man and the universities worried about their income stream (ie getting their cut)?
- krastanov 8y ago
  That income stream is what lets prestigious universities like the Ivies give great financial aid. Many people graduate from them with paying zero tuition. I can certainly complain about the efficiency with which this income is used and there are minor changes I would like to see to make this more transparent and clearly ethical, but it would be disingenuous to pretend they do not offer some of the best financial aid in the US.
  - hubxhiud 8y ago
    What a joke, the Ivy leagues are mostly hedgefunds and REITs with some education signaling attached. Losing out on a few extra rich people 'grants' are a rounding error.
    - zebraflask 8y ago
      As an Ivy grad, I think that that is an excessively cynical and inaccurate view. The educational value is real, regardless of how the universities handle their financials.
- jacobolus 8y ago
  What the universities do (taking students in exchange for a donation of a new building or whatever) is not meritocratic, but it isn’t illegal. They are private institutions empowered to make shady deals. Individual employees taking bribes to put students in by pretending they are athletes is clear fraud.