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I am from New Zealand. This was a terrible tragedy, and the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch, and not share. It's not only glorifying

I am from New Zealand. This was a terrible tragedy, and the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch, and not share. It's not only glorifying an awful act, but it's potentially traumatic. However I'm very uncomfortable with sties like liveleak being fully censored on NZ ISPs. I was unable to access liveleak.com at all from the few hours after the event, up to and including now. It sets a bad precedent and while I hope no one sees that video, the content itself is not illegal and we should not be censoring it as a kneejerk reaction. People who go to LiveLeak know what they're going to get.

stoolpigeon 8y ago
Are you sure liveleak was being blocked? Since a few days before this crime and especially since I get very frequent 503 errors from the site. I can't watch many videos, scroll var through videos, perform search, etc. It seems to be an issue with liveleak, not any blocking on the part of my isp. I'm in Hungary and have not heard anything about any videos being blocked here.
externalreality 8y ago
Watch it. Look at it. Many of us have to deal with this s$$t everyday. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into your privileged world you want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. You look away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes you feel bad. Its the truth. Deal with it because others have to.
- tiredyam 8y ago
  While I don’t disagree with your sentiment; I would love for you to elaborate a bit and be more specific instead of painting such broad strokes without breaking down examples. It will help the next reader, particularly readers with little context, parse the message. Otherwise this comment will be read, nodded at, and forgotten
- NavyNuke 8y ago
  > You look away from your history too. I'd say the proponents of multiculturalism are the ones looking away from history...
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I'd say the proponents of multiculturalism are the ones looking away from history... There's a difference between looking at it and saying we must do better and looking away.
- dang 8y ago
  Please keep grandiose ideological rhetoric off this site. It drowns out intellectual curiosity, which is what HN exists for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
imperialdrive 8y ago
Didn't think it was fair for this comment to disappear. A forgotten history can be dangerous. externalreality 1 hour ago [flagged] [dead] [-] Watch it. Look at it. Many of us have to deal with this s$$t everyday. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into your privileged world you want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. You look away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes you feel bad. Its the truth. Deal with it because others have to.
- wuschb 8y ago
  Christchurch +1
- dang 8y ago
  Please don't repost flagkilled comments. Maybe not all of them have been flagged for legit reasons, but most have. If a comment is dead that you believe shouldn't be dead, you can vouch for it by clicking on its timestamp, the clicking 'vouch' at the top of its page. Or you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com.
vkou 8y ago
> I am from New Zealand. This was a terrible tragedy, and the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch, and not share. It's not only glorifying an awful act, but it's potentially traumatic. The correct response is for the government to treat domestic terrorists, and preachers of hate the same way that they treat foreign ones. Anwar Al-Awlaki, and his son were the targets of a US drone strikes for the same thing - radicalizing speech, and inciting terrorist attacks. Yet, here we have an entire ecosystem of alt-right radicalization, inciting terrorist attacks, and the government doesn't lift a single finger to deal with it.
- cmurf 8y ago
  Right wing white supremacist terrorism is clearly international. The New Zealand shooter's manifesto contains the same grievance and fear of invasion and replacement of white people expressed by Anders Breivik, and the Squirrel Hill shooter. The POTUS likewise uses the same invader grievance, playing down right wing white supremacist terrorism saying it's a "small number of people" when asked if it's a growing problem, even though FBI considers it a growing problem and has for over a decade; while in the same statement repeats his hyping of problems on the southern border, calling it an invasion, despite ~40 year low in southern border interdiction and crime including illegal border crossing. The invader grievance by POTUS is not lost on people who study white supremacy in the U.S., nor is it lost on actual white supremacists. Nor was his entire five year racist lie of birtherism. Simultaneously with his rants about violence committed by Muslims, POTUS cut Countering Violent Extremism funds which focused on mitigation of white supremacists and neo-Nazis by de-radicalization therapy. So the right wing white supremacist problem, at least in the U.S., has been taken seriously; but with political change it has been taken less seriously by the current administration, for entirely predictable reasons. Whether FBI takes it seriously enough is an open question, but when intelligence agencies publicly list threats to the U.S., the southern border is not on the list, but right wing white supremacist hate groups are. There is a very real issue that until there is planning or solicitation to commit violence, right wing white supremacy is legal freedom of association, and hate speech is still protected speech, so long as it's not in the gray area of "fighting words". I think it's completely reasonable for FBI to infiltrate violence prone hate groups by paying informants and putting agents on the inside. I also have no problem with enduring warrants on leader organizers of such individuals for wire tapping. What they want is a race war. They want to destabilize the country. It's not a new thing. ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center have been tracking hate groups for a long time, both left wing and right wing. It just so happens right now it's overwhelmingly right wing hate groups out there. And it would not surprise me if the more violent prone ones would love to see successful recruitment of left wing groups, because they can't really have a race war, or make real their romantic notions of a civil war 2.0, with just a bunch of right wing groups. They have to incite the left to attack, or they've got nothing.
externalreality 8y ago
> nd the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch. Watch it. It represents the horrible truth of the elevated sense of Islamophobia and its tragic consequences. People shouldn't look away from this. Many of us have to deal with this on a daily basis. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into the privileged world people want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist, bigoted status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. We may be looking away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes us feel bad. Its the truth. We need to deal with it because others have to. Basically most of us sit there and tolerate minor (and sometimes major) forms of racism and do nothing only to act shocked when something like this happens. Its a psychological game played to avoid guilt and responsibility.

stoolpigeon 8y ago

Are you sure liveleak was being blocked? Since a few days before this crime and especially since I get very frequent 503 errors from the site. I can't watch many videos, scroll var through videos, perform search, etc. It seems to be an issue with liveleak, not any blocking on the part of my isp. I'm in Hungary and have not heard anything about any videos being blocked here.

externalreality 8y ago

Watch it. Look at it. Many of us have to deal with this s$$t everyday. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into your privileged world you want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. You look away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes you feel bad. Its the truth. Deal with it because others have to.

tiredyam 8y ago
While I don’t disagree with your sentiment; I would love for you to elaborate a bit and be more specific instead of painting such broad strokes without breaking down examples. It will help the next reader, particularly readers with little context, parse the message. Otherwise this comment will be read, nodded at, and forgotten
NavyNuke 8y ago
> You look away from your history too. I'd say the proponents of multiculturalism are the ones looking away from history...
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > I'd say the proponents of multiculturalism are the ones looking away from history... There's a difference between looking at it and saying we must do better and looking away.
dang 8y ago
Please keep grandiose ideological rhetoric off this site. It drowns out intellectual curiosity, which is what HN exists for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

imperialdrive 8y ago

Didn't think it was fair for this comment to disappear. A forgotten history can be dangerous. externalreality 1 hour ago [flagged] [dead] [-] Watch it. Look at it. Many of us have to deal with this s$$t everyday. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into your privileged world you want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. You look away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes you feel bad. Its the truth. Deal with it because others have to.

wuschb 8y ago
Christchurch +1
dang 8y ago
Please don't repost flagkilled comments. Maybe not all of them have been flagged for legit reasons, but most have. If a comment is dead that you believe shouldn't be dead, you can vouch for it by clicking on its timestamp, the clicking 'vouch' at the top of its page. Or you can email us at hn@ycombinator.com.

vkou 8y ago

> I am from New Zealand. This was a terrible tragedy, and the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch, and not share. It's not only glorifying an awful act, but it's potentially traumatic. The correct response is for the government to treat domestic terrorists, and preachers of hate the same way that they treat foreign ones. Anwar Al-Awlaki, and his son were the targets of a US drone strikes for the same thing - radicalizing speech, and inciting terrorist attacks. Yet, here we have an entire ecosystem of alt-right radicalization, inciting terrorist attacks, and the government doesn't lift a single finger to deal with it.

cmurf 8y ago
Right wing white supremacist terrorism is clearly international. The New Zealand shooter's manifesto contains the same grievance and fear of invasion and replacement of white people expressed by Anders Breivik, and the Squirrel Hill shooter. The POTUS likewise uses the same invader grievance, playing down right wing white supremacist terrorism saying it's a "small number of people" when asked if it's a growing problem, even though FBI considers it a growing problem and has for over a decade; while in the same statement repeats his hyping of problems on the southern border, calling it an invasion, despite ~40 year low in southern border interdiction and crime including illegal border crossing. The invader grievance by POTUS is not lost on people who study white supremacy in the U.S., nor is it lost on actual white supremacists. Nor was his entire five year racist lie of birtherism. Simultaneously with his rants about violence committed by Muslims, POTUS cut Countering Violent Extremism funds which focused on mitigation of white supremacists and neo-Nazis by de-radicalization therapy. So the right wing white supremacist problem, at least in the U.S., has been taken seriously; but with political change it has been taken less seriously by the current administration, for entirely predictable reasons. Whether FBI takes it seriously enough is an open question, but when intelligence agencies publicly list threats to the U.S., the southern border is not on the list, but right wing white supremacist hate groups are. There is a very real issue that until there is planning or solicitation to commit violence, right wing white supremacy is legal freedom of association, and hate speech is still protected speech, so long as it's not in the gray area of "fighting words". I think it's completely reasonable for FBI to infiltrate violence prone hate groups by paying informants and putting agents on the inside. I also have no problem with enduring warrants on leader organizers of such individuals for wire tapping. What they want is a race war. They want to destabilize the country. It's not a new thing. ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center have been tracking hate groups for a long time, both left wing and right wing. It just so happens right now it's overwhelmingly right wing hate groups out there. And it would not surprise me if the more violent prone ones would love to see successful recruitment of left wing groups, because they can't really have a race war, or make real their romantic notions of a civil war 2.0, with just a bunch of right wing groups. They have to incite the left to attack, or they've got nothing.

externalreality 8y ago

> nd the appropriate response to this horrible video is to not watch. Watch it. It represents the horrible truth of the elevated sense of Islamophobia and its tragic consequences. People shouldn't look away from this. Many of us have to deal with this on a daily basis. When it gets so out of control that it creeps up into the privileged world people want to look away. Don't forget that today's global structure is based on widespread massacres and genocide. This extreme comes from overlooking a racist, bigoted status quo much like an infestation comes from overlooking the first signs of insects. We may be looking away from your history too. Looking away is not going to change things. I don't care if it makes us feel bad. Its the truth. We need to deal with it because others have to. Basically most of us sit there and tolerate minor (and sometimes major) forms of racism and do nothing only to act shocked when something like this happens. Its a psychological game played to avoid guilt and responsibility.