4 ms·

Only tangentially related, but if you've ever used ssh, you should also donate to the OpenBSD Foundation. http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ http://www.openbsdfo

Only tangentially related, but if you've ever used ssh, you should also donate to the OpenBSD Foundation. http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/

cperciva 16y ago
I think there would be far more donations if people could donate to OpenSSH rather than donating to OpenBSD. Theo loves to use OpenSSH to guilt-trip people into donating, but there's no guarantee that donations will, in fact, end up supporting OpenSSH at all.
- there 16y ago
  that's like saying you'll donate to wikipedia only if it's used to pay for the bandwidth used by a single page on the site. openssh is developed in the openbsd tree, by openbsd developers. there are infrastructure, travel, equipment, and other costs that can't be decoupled from openbsd work. if you want to support openssh, support openbsd developers. i'm sure if someone stepped up and sponsored an openssh-specific hackathon, they could be "guaranteed" that their money was directly funding more openssh work than openbsd work. but, not surprisingly, nobody's ever done that.
  - cperciva 16y ago
    that's like saying you'll donate to wikipedia only if it's used to pay for the bandwidth used by a single page on the site. No, because wikipedia isn't going out and saying "you should support us because we have a page about Hacker News". They say that we should support them for everything they do. What Theo is would be like me saying "if you use bsdiff, you should pay me to work on FreeBSD" -- bsdiff is a small part of FreeBSD, and only a very small amount of the time I spend on FreeBSD is even remotely related to bsdiff.
    - there 16y ago
      No, because wikipedia isn't going out and saying "you should support us because we have a page about Hacker News". They say that we should support them for everything they do. of course, because allocating a donation to a specific page would be nearly impossible. just as allocating openbsd donations to specific commits on src/usr.bin/ssh is difficult and not worth the time. What Theo is would be like me saying "if you use bsdiff, you should pay me to work on FreeBSD" -- bsdiff is a small part of FreeBSD, and only a very small amount of the time I spend on FreeBSD is even remotely related to bsdiff. if a critical component of my commercial product offering was bsdiff, i would certainly donate to freebsd (or wherever you directed donations, being the author) to see its continued development.
      - cperciva 16y ago
        What if someone else told you that if you use bsdiff you should donate to FreeBSD? Keep in mind that Theo is not the author of OpenSSH.
        there 16y ago
        are you seriously implying that theo is not one of the authors of openssh? or that the other authors of the code don't agree with him on where donations should go? direct commits, not including ok's on reviewed code: jcs@air:/usr/src/usr.bin/ssh> cvs log | grep 'author: ' | sed -e 's/.*author: //' -e 's/;.*//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n cvs server: Logging . [...] 174 provos 203 itojun 303 jmc 368 dtucker 882 miod 1098 stevesk 1234 deraadt 1417 jason 1623 brad 1765 djm 3827 markus from the last openssh announcement (http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=128256356229601&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=128256356229601&#...): OpenSSH is brought to you by Markus Friedl, Niels Provos, Theo de Raadt, Kevin Steves, Damien Miller, Darren Tucker, Jason McIntyre, Tim Rice and Ben Lindstrom.
        cperciva 16y ago
        It depends how you define "author". Personally I would say that at this point OpenSSH has two authors -- markus and djm -- and a number of minor contributors. Looking at 'cvs annotate', I see that markus committed 42.6% of the LOC and djm committed 32.8% of the LOC, while nobody else was higher than 6.3%. Sure, LOC isn't a very good metric, but within a single project, with everybody using the same language, a 5x gap is significant. If you look at who is currently working on OpenSSH, the numbers are even more dramatic: djm is responsible for over 80% of the LOC committed in 2010.

Only tangentially related, but if you've ever used ssh, you should also donate to the OpenBSD Foundation. http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/ http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/

cperciva 16y ago

I think there would be far more donations if people could donate to OpenSSH rather than donating to OpenBSD. Theo loves to use OpenSSH to guilt-trip people into donating, but there's no guarantee that donations will, in fact, end up supporting OpenSSH at all.

there 16y ago
that's like saying you'll donate to wikipedia only if it's used to pay for the bandwidth used by a single page on the site. openssh is developed in the openbsd tree, by openbsd developers. there are infrastructure, travel, equipment, and other costs that can't be decoupled from openbsd work. if you want to support openssh, support openbsd developers. i'm sure if someone stepped up and sponsored an openssh-specific hackathon, they could be "guaranteed" that their money was directly funding more openssh work than openbsd work. but, not surprisingly, nobody's ever done that.
- cperciva 16y ago
  that's like saying you'll donate to wikipedia only if it's used to pay for the bandwidth used by a single page on the site. No, because wikipedia isn't going out and saying "you should support us because we have a page about Hacker News". They say that we should support them for everything they do. What Theo is would be like me saying "if you use bsdiff, you should pay me to work on FreeBSD" -- bsdiff is a small part of FreeBSD, and only a very small amount of the time I spend on FreeBSD is even remotely related to bsdiff.
  - there 16y ago
    No, because wikipedia isn't going out and saying "you should support us because we have a page about Hacker News". They say that we should support them for everything they do. of course, because allocating a donation to a specific page would be nearly impossible. just as allocating openbsd donations to specific commits on src/usr.bin/ssh is difficult and not worth the time. What Theo is would be like me saying "if you use bsdiff, you should pay me to work on FreeBSD" -- bsdiff is a small part of FreeBSD, and only a very small amount of the time I spend on FreeBSD is even remotely related to bsdiff. if a critical component of my commercial product offering was bsdiff, i would certainly donate to freebsd (or wherever you directed donations, being the author) to see its continued development.
    - cperciva 16y ago
      What if someone else told you that if you use bsdiff you should donate to FreeBSD? Keep in mind that Theo is not the author of OpenSSH.
      - there 16y ago
        are you seriously implying that theo is not one of the authors of openssh? or that the other authors of the code don't agree with him on where donations should go? direct commits, not including ok's on reviewed code: jcs@air:/usr/src/usr.bin/ssh> cvs log | grep 'author: ' | sed -e 's/.*author: //' -e 's/;.*//' | sort | uniq -c | sort -n cvs server: Logging . [...] 174 provos 203 itojun 303 jmc 368 dtucker 882 miod 1098 stevesk 1234 deraadt 1417 jason 1623 brad 1765 djm 3827 markus from the last openssh announcement (http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=128256356229601&w=2 http://marc.info/?l=openssh-unix-dev&m=128256356229601&#...): OpenSSH is brought to you by Markus Friedl, Niels Provos, Theo de Raadt, Kevin Steves, Damien Miller, Darren Tucker, Jason McIntyre, Tim Rice and Ben Lindstrom.
        cperciva 16y ago
        It depends how you define "author". Personally I would say that at this point OpenSSH has two authors -- markus and djm -- and a number of minor contributors. Looking at 'cvs annotate', I see that markus committed 42.6% of the LOC and djm committed 32.8% of the LOC, while nobody else was higher than 6.3%. Sure, LOC isn't a very good metric, but within a single project, with everybody using the same language, a 5x gap is significant. If you look at who is currently working on OpenSSH, the numbers are even more dramatic: djm is responsible for over 80% of the LOC committed in 2010.