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Take a stand - ask for the funds under the condition that you'll resign if you don't get them. If you have to resign, tell your team why. The market is too go

Take a stand - ask for the funds under the condition that you'll resign if you don't get them. If you have to resign, tell your team why. The market is too good to tolerate this sorta thing from a company imho.

__ralston3 8y ago
All else aside, this would make for a pretty amazing answer to the "So why did you leave your last company?". I can't imagine the loyalty inspired by this type of "treat my team right or I'm out" mentality.
- listenallyall 8y ago
  >> "So why did you leave your last company?" "I left because I was incapable of persuading management of the effectiveness and importance of my team and its contribution to the overall enterprise." "Wow, don't you think you're being a little hard on yourself?" "Well, they gave away my team's bonus to another team, despite my objections." "That's unfortunate, but that still doesn't really explain why you left your last company." "Well, despite the clear signal they sent when they took away my team's bonus, I didn't get the hint and completely misjudged my importance to the company. See, I painted myself into a corner by giving the executive team an ultimatum." "Hmmm, yea, not very wise, you probably do suck as a manager."
  - Latteland 8y ago
    It doesn't mean you suck as a manger that you don't get what you want. You never get all of what you want. I can only imagine someone saying that has no experience as a manager, or has been lucky and not found themselves in difficult circumstances. What sucks is if you don't even try to advocate appropriately for your team.
- rgbrenner 8y ago
  Would it be amazing? The people doing the hiring would be his managers.. not the devs he would be managing. They're exactly the people who may decide to take a bonus from his team if he's hired. And telling them that if they don't do exactly what he wants, he'll leave at a moments notice.. isn't a good answer to them (or really at all). Someone will have to deal with this issue.. either him or the new manager. His job is to handle issues like this.. quitting the moment he runs into a problem is not a sign of a good manager.
dahfizz 8y ago
Don't you think that's a bit extreme? You shouldn't start a negotiation with your strongest offer, take it or leave it. Maybe we should learn to work with people without quitting as soon as we don't get what we want.
- mattbillenstein 8y ago
  Not really - this sorta thing is only the beginning - you roll over on a thing like comp and you'll get rolled again and again. Either get it fixed, or get out.
  - dahfizz 8y ago
    Again, you're assuming the only two options are roll over or quit. There are plenty of ways to fight something like this without just storming out.
listenallyall 8y ago
Sounds like 100% guarantee to be let go, because who would defend him? Top mgmt obviously considers him a low performer (or manager of a low-performing dept), as evidenced by the "scraps" they got. And the employees under him don't want to work for a manager perceived to be weak, who is unable to deliver at bonus time. (worse -- was unable to even prevent the bonus pool that was initially earmarked for that team to be taken away and given to another dept). Seems like both sides would have no problem replacing the OP with someone else.
- swagasaurus-rex 8y ago
  Sounds like a 100% bad situation. Why stay where you are, in the most clear terms, unappreciated? You're asking to be reorg'ed out of the company anyways. This is one case where following your pride is the right option. It's like ending a bad relationship; things will only get worse.
  - listenallyall 8y ago
    Never said OP should stick around long-term. But leave on his own terms, after securing employment elsewhere, or with some other plan. As opposed to laying down an ultimatum, in which case he could be shown the door in a matter of days. Better yet, if he wants to express loyalty to his team, work his personal network on the side to get each of his team members hired at a more appreciative company, and be the _last_ one to jump ship, only after all the direct reports have safely been "rescued" via better employment opportunities.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      This advice may be the “right thing” to do by the team but may not be legally sound, depending on the OP’s contract with their employer. In fact it may not be legally sound even in the absence of a contract, depending on how a court interprets the implicit obligations between employer and employee. (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, of course. Just consult one before doing anything like this.)
    - 8y ago
wheelerwj 8y ago
> you'll resign if you don't get them. whoa whoa whoa, settle down my friends. Lets not recommend that someone give up their livelihoods so easily. OP, this was on HN yesterday, check it out: https://georgestocker.com/2019/03/14/my-salary-progression-in-tech/ https://georgestocker.com/2019/03/14/my-salary-progression-i... You should take a stand if its something you feel strongly about, but never threaten to quit. it should be a silent promise, not a threat. If they don't appreciate you, you and your team should find a company that does.
rgbrenner 8y ago
This is the worst advice in the thread. Don’t fall on your sword. You’ll live with the consequences, a loss of income, and a period of unemployment.. and it’ll fix nothing. Your team still won’t receive their bonuses.

__ralston3 8y ago

All else aside, this would make for a pretty amazing answer to the "So why did you leave your last company?". I can't imagine the loyalty inspired by this type of "treat my team right or I'm out" mentality.

listenallyall 8y ago
>> "So why did you leave your last company?" "I left because I was incapable of persuading management of the effectiveness and importance of my team and its contribution to the overall enterprise." "Wow, don't you think you're being a little hard on yourself?" "Well, they gave away my team's bonus to another team, despite my objections." "That's unfortunate, but that still doesn't really explain why you left your last company." "Well, despite the clear signal they sent when they took away my team's bonus, I didn't get the hint and completely misjudged my importance to the company. See, I painted myself into a corner by giving the executive team an ultimatum." "Hmmm, yea, not very wise, you probably do suck as a manager."
- Latteland 8y ago
  It doesn't mean you suck as a manger that you don't get what you want. You never get all of what you want. I can only imagine someone saying that has no experience as a manager, or has been lucky and not found themselves in difficult circumstances. What sucks is if you don't even try to advocate appropriately for your team.
rgbrenner 8y ago
Would it be amazing? The people doing the hiring would be his managers.. not the devs he would be managing. They're exactly the people who may decide to take a bonus from his team if he's hired. And telling them that if they don't do exactly what he wants, he'll leave at a moments notice.. isn't a good answer to them (or really at all). Someone will have to deal with this issue.. either him or the new manager. His job is to handle issues like this.. quitting the moment he runs into a problem is not a sign of a good manager.

dahfizz 8y ago

Don't you think that's a bit extreme? You shouldn't start a negotiation with your strongest offer, take it or leave it. Maybe we should learn to work with people without quitting as soon as we don't get what we want.

mattbillenstein 8y ago
Not really - this sorta thing is only the beginning - you roll over on a thing like comp and you'll get rolled again and again. Either get it fixed, or get out.
- dahfizz 8y ago
  Again, you're assuming the only two options are roll over or quit. There are plenty of ways to fight something like this without just storming out.

listenallyall 8y ago

Sounds like 100% guarantee to be let go, because who would defend him? Top mgmt obviously considers him a low performer (or manager of a low-performing dept), as evidenced by the "scraps" they got. And the employees under him don't want to work for a manager perceived to be weak, who is unable to deliver at bonus time. (worse -- was unable to even prevent the bonus pool that was initially earmarked for that team to be taken away and given to another dept). Seems like both sides would have no problem replacing the OP with someone else.

swagasaurus-rex 8y ago
Sounds like a 100% bad situation. Why stay where you are, in the most clear terms, unappreciated? You're asking to be reorg'ed out of the company anyways. This is one case where following your pride is the right option. It's like ending a bad relationship; things will only get worse.
- listenallyall 8y ago
  Never said OP should stick around long-term. But leave on his own terms, after securing employment elsewhere, or with some other plan. As opposed to laying down an ultimatum, in which case he could be shown the door in a matter of days. Better yet, if he wants to express loyalty to his team, work his personal network on the side to get each of his team members hired at a more appreciative company, and be the _last_ one to jump ship, only after all the direct reports have safely been "rescued" via better employment opportunities.
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    This advice may be the “right thing” to do by the team but may not be legally sound, depending on the OP’s contract with their employer. In fact it may not be legally sound even in the absence of a contract, depending on how a court interprets the implicit obligations between employer and employee. (I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, of course. Just consult one before doing anything like this.)
  - 8y ago

wheelerwj 8y ago

> you'll resign if you don't get them. whoa whoa whoa, settle down my friends. Lets not recommend that someone give up their livelihoods so easily. OP, this was on HN yesterday, check it out: https://georgestocker.com/2019/03/14/my-salary-progression-in-tech/ https://georgestocker.com/2019/03/14/my-salary-progression-i... You should take a stand if its something you feel strongly about, but never threaten to quit. it should be a silent promise, not a threat. If they don't appreciate you, you and your team should find a company that does.

rgbrenner 8y ago

This is the worst advice in the thread. Don’t fall on your sword. You’ll live with the consequences, a loss of income, and a period of unemployment.. and it’ll fix nothing. Your team still won’t receive their bonuses.