6 ms·

Why are all the articles about Beto about how cool and antiestablishment he is? Just absolutely nothing about what he really intends to do, how he intends to do

by gaze 8y ago

Why are all the articles about Beto about how cool and antiestablishment he is? Just absolutely nothing about what he really intends to do, how he intends to do it, and most importantly, how do we reconcile his conservative voting record with this contrary image he presents?

smacktoward 8y ago
Because on the questions of what he intends to do and how he intends to do it, he has been maddeningly vague. It's hard to write about what somebody is going to do when they refuse to tell you. (In his defense, this vagueness can actually be read as strategic. Barack Obama took a similar tack in 2008, and it let people project onto him pretty much any profile they wanted. In politics, specificity can be a career limiter.)
- dv_dt 8y ago
  Obama's strategy was good for his time, in 2020 I think candidates will need to be much more specific and forceful about their policy intents.
velcrovan 8y ago
For real. Dude sided with republicans against his own party even though he was in a solidly blue district. Even campaigned all over the state for a republican! I love what he did for downballot dems in 2016 and he had that great speech on youtube. But c'mon. Mr GOP Lovefest is not who we need in 2020.
- edaemon 8y ago
  I didn't know much about his voting record, so I searched a bit and found this: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/... That indicates O'Rourke votes slightly conservative for a Democrat, but is still far more liberal than any Republican. The data cited there shows him pretty squarely in the "slightly conservative Democrat" range: https://voteview.com/person/21361/beto-o-rourke https://voteview.com/person/21361/beto-o-rourke Is that an inaccurate assessment? I'm wondering where "Mr GOP Lovefest" comes from.
  - philwelch 8y ago
    Purity testing. Kind of like how Republicans dismiss moderates as "RINOs".
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
dexen 8y ago
Somebody is still running Beto's campaign to the old (Clinton/Bush era) standard of use the media to build up brand and brand. Meanwhile there is a crop of new-style politicians, all over the spectrum, that run via the new (AOC/Trump era) standard of use the social media+memes to build up brand and support.
- paulgb 8y ago
  I don't think their style is as new as it appears. Yes, they are more active on social media, but most Americans are not on Twitter directly; there is a whole genre of news story now that revolve around things politicians say on Twitter. AOC didn't really have a national brand until after she won, and she got there mostly through traditional retail politics. Trump had a media brand to begin with so he was able to create traditional media coverage whenever he wanted.
  - nostromo 8y ago
    The difference is that AOC/Trump use social media to drive the news, bottom up. Old-school politicians use the news to try and drive social media and public sentiment, top down. Right now Beto seems a lot like Hillary, using the traditional approach of PR driven puff pieces to try and capture attention. Meanwhile the AOC/Trump populists use a direct channel (Twitter) to bypass the media and have a conversation directly with their hardcore fans. And then that conversation works its way out into the mainstream media.
    - paulgb 8y ago
      I see what you mean. I thought you meant they were able to bypass the media as gatekeepers, rather than just using the media in a different way. I'd also add that AOC is able to use social media now to build national support, but she won her primary with old-fashioned shoe leather politics. Even local NYC press didn't run a lot of stories until after she won the primary (I was closely tracking a race in a neighboring district so I think I saw most of what was out there.)
linuxftw 8y ago
It's how the establishment pushes new politicians on you. Why should this person receive any coverage at all?
- smacktoward 8y ago
  > Why should this person receive any coverage at all? In most polling (see https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democratic_nomination_polls/ https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democr...), if the poll includes O'Rourke he consistently pulls about the same amount of support as Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris, and more than Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar or Kirsten Gillibrand. So there's definitely enough demand for him out there to make him worth covering.
- heurist 8y ago
  He's one of the more charismatic contenders, is young, and has a large cult following both in a deeply red state and online. Those factors naturally lead to coverage, at least in today's press.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago
What's wrong with a "conservative voting record"?
wybiral 8y ago
> how do we reconcile his conservative voting record with this contrary image he presents? Because a good representative represents their people. And as a Texan, I can assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he had to represent. Any politician who blindly ignores a large segment of their constituents (even the ones that didn't vote for them) isn't someone you want in office. I don't have to name specific examples for you to know who I'm talking about.
- remarkEon 8y ago
  >I can assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he had to represent. This is definitely the case. It's interesting to watch Texas, as demographically it shifts from a traditionally conservative white voting block to a much more diverse state that will naturally vote democratic. Give it another election cycle or two and turning at least one Senate seat blue is almost assured.
- JeremyNT 8y ago
  He represented an urban district which was overwhelming blue. Are you sure his constituents were holding him back in this regard?
  - wybiral 8y ago
    Blue doesn't mean far left progressive. Being a Democrat in Texas isn't necessarily the same as being a Democrat in a more progressive state. So "blue" is an ambiguous term here.
m0zg 8y ago
>> what he really intends to do Doesn't matter to his voting base. See e.g. Obama. Obama did very little of what he promised in the first term, got re-elected anyway (heck, even I voted for the guy). But unlike Obama, Beto is not going to be the president, not after losing the race to one of the least likeable candidates in his own state, and not with a DWI on his criminal record.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago
  Cruz is only unlikable in the liberal bubble, most Texans approve of him and he still only won by < 3 in a state Trump won by 9 and Romney won by 15.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    > he still only won by < 3 in a state Trump > won by 9 and Romney won by 15 Now read that again and tell me where it contradicts my point.
    - akhilcacharya 8y ago
      It says more about the changing coalitions than anything else because Democrats lost the congressional ballot in Texas by a little over 3 without Ted Cruz in every district.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
specialp 8y ago
He has to vote as to what his constituents want. Also having more swing votes in each party is exactly what we need. We don't complain about Susan Collins voting with the democrats on occasion. The fact that we have parties overwhelmingly voting 100% lockstep on issues that affect localities different is troubling. I am not a binary person that goes left/liberal on every issue myself, so why should I expect anyone else to?
adrianmonk 8y ago
It's very possible it's an artifact of two things: (1) Having risen to national fame by being a not-Ted-Cruz candidate. (2) How Texas culture works. How do you contrast yourself with Ted Cruz? Well, Cruz is a very common type of character in Texas. Baptist, often wears a suit, a little stodgy and uptight but apparently earnest in his beliefs, probably watches football and has very innocuous / safe musical tastes, and casts his lot with the traditional Southern social fabric that exists here. I know a million guys like Cruz. But as big as that cultural bubble is, there are also tons of people who live outside it. You could almost go so far as saying that every Texan decides at some point whether they're going to live in that bubble. In the language of Texas culture, Beto is basically saying, hey, I'm not one of these traditionalists. I'm different than that. And he is, even if he has some conservative views. The message makes sense to a Texan. Whether it will translate to a national audience is another question entirely, and I think it probably won't. He'll have to change his message. Also, he got a lot of momentum because people wanted to support whoever opposed Cruz, and he'll need something else to create that kind of energy now.
cbayram 8y ago
Because politics is about feelings. The aim is for you to empathize and identify the politician. Conversely, evoke disgust and fear against your opponent. It’s the weakness of humanity being exploited.
kodablah 8y ago
This is why he lost in Texas IMO. While from the outside looking in it can feel like it was unwinnable due to party-politics, from what I've gathered a lack of focus on issues also hurt (that and general disagreement with issues he did reference). One can imagine at a national level his stance on issues would be more accepted, but he'll need to harp on them much more than focusing on who he's not. That "contrary image" is actually a positive and not a negative for many.
- JamesBarney 8y ago
  He lost in Texas because he ran as a democrat in Texas. I doubt talking about issues would have made much of a difference. Issues make a much larger difference in the primaries than the general elections for two reasons. The policy gap between Cruz and Beto are vast compared to differences between any two democratic candidates. And independents tend to be less driven by issues and more by character and charisma.
craftyguy 8y ago
Political articles are becoming increasingly more popular on HN and collect more fake internet points for posters.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dmode 8y ago
He ran a very publicized Senate race. And all his policies and intentions are well documented.
gabbygab 8y ago
It's part of his PR campaign. His political team and the PR firms he hired probably did a lot of research and polling and decided this was a great way to appeal to younger voters. Politics is all about image and appeal. And it's not just Beto. Every politician from Trump to Beto plays this game. People vote on their image of you rather than who you really are. I think Black Mirror had a great episode on how image and messaging defines a political campaign.
feistypharit 8y ago
Because Trump mainly won for being anti-establishment. The Dems hope to get those voters for their next candidate. It's a decent play, because Hillary was definitely establishment.

by gaze 8y ago

smacktoward 8y ago

Because on the questions of what he intends to do and how he intends to do it, he has been maddeningly vague. It's hard to write about what somebody is going to do when they refuse to tell you. (In his defense, this vagueness can actually be read as strategic. Barack Obama took a similar tack in 2008, and it let people project onto him pretty much any profile they wanted. In politics, specificity can be a career limiter.)

dv_dt 8y ago
Obama's strategy was good for his time, in 2020 I think candidates will need to be much more specific and forceful about their policy intents.

velcrovan 8y ago

For real. Dude sided with republicans against his own party even though he was in a solidly blue district. Even campaigned all over the state for a republican! I love what he did for downballot dems in 2016 and he had that great speech on youtube. But c'mon. Mr GOP Lovefest is not who we need in 2020.

edaemon 8y ago
I didn't know much about his voting record, so I searched a bit and found this: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/beto-orourke-voting-record https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/21/18150359/... That indicates O'Rourke votes slightly conservative for a Democrat, but is still far more liberal than any Republican. The data cited there shows him pretty squarely in the "slightly conservative Democrat" range: https://voteview.com/person/21361/beto-o-rourke https://voteview.com/person/21361/beto-o-rourke Is that an inaccurate assessment? I'm wondering where "Mr GOP Lovefest" comes from.
- philwelch 8y ago
  Purity testing. Kind of like how Republicans dismiss moderates as "RINOs".
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

dexen 8y ago

Somebody is still running Beto's campaign to the old (Clinton/Bush era) standard of use the media to build up brand and brand. Meanwhile there is a crop of new-style politicians, all over the spectrum, that run via the new (AOC/Trump era) standard of use the social media+memes to build up brand and support.

paulgb 8y ago
I don't think their style is as new as it appears. Yes, they are more active on social media, but most Americans are not on Twitter directly; there is a whole genre of news story now that revolve around things politicians say on Twitter. AOC didn't really have a national brand until after she won, and she got there mostly through traditional retail politics. Trump had a media brand to begin with so he was able to create traditional media coverage whenever he wanted.
- nostromo 8y ago
  The difference is that AOC/Trump use social media to drive the news, bottom up. Old-school politicians use the news to try and drive social media and public sentiment, top down. Right now Beto seems a lot like Hillary, using the traditional approach of PR driven puff pieces to try and capture attention. Meanwhile the AOC/Trump populists use a direct channel (Twitter) to bypass the media and have a conversation directly with their hardcore fans. And then that conversation works its way out into the mainstream media.
  - paulgb 8y ago
    I see what you mean. I thought you meant they were able to bypass the media as gatekeepers, rather than just using the media in a different way. I'd also add that AOC is able to use social media now to build national support, but she won her primary with old-fashioned shoe leather politics. Even local NYC press didn't run a lot of stories until after she won the primary (I was closely tracking a race in a neighboring district so I think I saw most of what was out there.)

linuxftw 8y ago

It's how the establishment pushes new politicians on you. Why should this person receive any coverage at all?

smacktoward 8y ago
> Why should this person receive any coverage at all? In most polling (see https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democratic_nomination_polls/ https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/democr...), if the poll includes O'Rourke he consistently pulls about the same amount of support as Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris, and more than Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar or Kirsten Gillibrand. So there's definitely enough demand for him out there to make him worth covering.
heurist 8y ago
He's one of the more charismatic contenders, is young, and has a large cult following both in a deeply red state and online. Those factors naturally lead to coverage, at least in today's press.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

WC3w6pXxgGd 8y ago

What's wrong with a "conservative voting record"?

wybiral 8y ago

> how do we reconcile his conservative voting record with this contrary image he presents? Because a good representative represents their people. And as a Texan, I can assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he had to represent. Any politician who blindly ignores a large segment of their constituents (even the ones that didn't vote for them) isn't someone you want in office. I don't have to name specific examples for you to know who I'm talking about.

remarkEon 8y ago
>I can assure you that his left-leaning constituents weren't always the majority he had to represent. This is definitely the case. It's interesting to watch Texas, as demographically it shifts from a traditionally conservative white voting block to a much more diverse state that will naturally vote democratic. Give it another election cycle or two and turning at least one Senate seat blue is almost assured.
JeremyNT 8y ago
He represented an urban district which was overwhelming blue. Are you sure his constituents were holding him back in this regard?
- wybiral 8y ago
  Blue doesn't mean far left progressive. Being a Democrat in Texas isn't necessarily the same as being a Democrat in a more progressive state. So "blue" is an ambiguous term here.

m0zg 8y ago

>> what he really intends to do Doesn't matter to his voting base. See e.g. Obama. Obama did very little of what he promised in the first term, got re-elected anyway (heck, even I voted for the guy). But unlike Obama, Beto is not going to be the president, not after losing the race to one of the least likeable candidates in his own state, and not with a DWI on his criminal record.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
Cruz is only unlikable in the liberal bubble, most Texans approve of him and he still only won by < 3 in a state Trump won by 9 and Romney won by 15.
- m0zg 8y ago
  > he still only won by < 3 in a state Trump > won by 9 and Romney won by 15 Now read that again and tell me where it contradicts my point.
  - akhilcacharya 8y ago
    It says more about the changing coalitions than anything else because Democrats lost the congressional ballot in Texas by a little over 3 without Ted Cruz in every district.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

specialp 8y ago

He has to vote as to what his constituents want. Also having more swing votes in each party is exactly what we need. We don't complain about Susan Collins voting with the democrats on occasion. The fact that we have parties overwhelmingly voting 100% lockstep on issues that affect localities different is troubling. I am not a binary person that goes left/liberal on every issue myself, so why should I expect anyone else to?

adrianmonk 8y ago

It's very possible it's an artifact of two things: (1) Having risen to national fame by being a not-Ted-Cruz candidate. (2) How Texas culture works. How do you contrast yourself with Ted Cruz? Well, Cruz is a very common type of character in Texas. Baptist, often wears a suit, a little stodgy and uptight but apparently earnest in his beliefs, probably watches football and has very innocuous / safe musical tastes, and casts his lot with the traditional Southern social fabric that exists here. I know a million guys like Cruz. But as big as that cultural bubble is, there are also tons of people who live outside it. You could almost go so far as saying that every Texan decides at some point whether they're going to live in that bubble. In the language of Texas culture, Beto is basically saying, hey, I'm not one of these traditionalists. I'm different than that. And he is, even if he has some conservative views. The message makes sense to a Texan. Whether it will translate to a national audience is another question entirely, and I think it probably won't. He'll have to change his message. Also, he got a lot of momentum because people wanted to support whoever opposed Cruz, and he'll need something else to create that kind of energy now.

cbayram 8y ago

Because politics is about feelings. The aim is for you to empathize and identify the politician. Conversely, evoke disgust and fear against your opponent. It’s the weakness of humanity being exploited.

kodablah 8y ago

This is why he lost in Texas IMO. While from the outside looking in it can feel like it was unwinnable due to party-politics, from what I've gathered a lack of focus on issues also hurt (that and general disagreement with issues he did reference). One can imagine at a national level his stance on issues would be more accepted, but he'll need to harp on them much more than focusing on who he's not. That "contrary image" is actually a positive and not a negative for many.

JamesBarney 8y ago
He lost in Texas because he ran as a democrat in Texas. I doubt talking about issues would have made much of a difference. Issues make a much larger difference in the primaries than the general elections for two reasons. The policy gap between Cruz and Beto are vast compared to differences between any two democratic candidates. And independents tend to be less driven by issues and more by character and charisma.

craftyguy 8y ago

Political articles are becoming increasingly more popular on HN and collect more fake internet points for posters.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

dmode 8y ago

He ran a very publicized Senate race. And all his policies and intentions are well documented.

gabbygab 8y ago

It's part of his PR campaign. His political team and the PR firms he hired probably did a lot of research and polling and decided this was a great way to appeal to younger voters. Politics is all about image and appeal. And it's not just Beto. Every politician from Trump to Beto plays this game. People vote on their image of you rather than who you really are. I think Black Mirror had a great episode on how image and messaging defines a political campaign.

feistypharit 8y ago

Because Trump mainly won for being anti-establishment. The Dems hope to get those voters for their next candidate. It's a decent play, because Hillary was definitely establishment.