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Can someone explain to me how EV's can scale in older urban residential areas (most european cities) where cars are typically parked on the street (i.e. no priv

Can someone explain to me how EV's can scale in older urban residential areas (most european cities) where cars are typically parked on the street (i.e. no private parking spaces)? I just can't see how the logistics of charging would work for more than a few EVs per city block...

aglavine 8y ago
public plugs
bastawhiz 8y ago
I've seen EV charging stations at offices and supermarkets in some pretty "old" places. I could imagine seeing them in more places where you park for a while.
issa 8y ago
A few possible answers and solutions: 1) People who live in urban residential areas in Europe don't typically drive very far on a daily basis. So charging doesn't have to be as common a thing as it is in the US. 2) Charging stations at work places. I don't know the numbers, but I would assume a decent percentage of Europeans who drive to work have a parking lot at their jobsite. 3) Highway rest stops. The "travel plaza" type of rest stop is common in europe and could accommodate intercity travelers. 4) Battery swapping technology may help down the road.
- dariusj18 8y ago
  5) A charging service (a truck with a big ass battery) that your car or you calls for and uses the car's gps to find and charge it. 6) Your car auto drives itself to the charging station and drives back during off hours. 7) All this is moot, electric and self driving technology will so absolutely revolutionize transportation that these problems will not be applicable.
- HALtheWise 8y ago
  There are other places we could imagine setting up chargers too, like at grocery markets or other stores. Because Tesla batteries (and some but not all other EVs) are massively oversized for a typical single day's drive, you probably only need to charge every 1-2 weeks unless you are taking a trip, in which case you use superchargers or such.
kokey 8y ago
I think the real future here is when automation develops enough so these cars can drive itself to and from a parking location nearby. This will free up the space on these streets taken up by existing cars, allow more space for traffic and for stops for passengers to get in and out of vehicles.
ashelmire 8y ago
You don't have gas pumps by street parking. Why should EVs be any different? Don't let your charge get so low that you can't make it to the nearest charging station.
- mark-r 8y ago
  It takes a LOT more time to charge than it does to fill a gas (petrol) tank. Thus the requirement to charge overnight.
  - btilly 8y ago
    More time, yes. A lot more time? Filling a gas tank takes what, 10 minutes? Charging at a supercharger takes 30 minutes. That's more, but not ridiculously so. For comparison, getting the same charge at home from the recommended outlet takes 4 hours. Getting the same charge off of a home outlet is something like 36 hours. So yes, it can take a long time. But it doesn't have to.
    - mark-r 8y ago
      I'd be very surprised if it takes me more than 5 minutes with pay at the pump. It's a difference in magnitude that's the problem. For 5 minutes, of which half is spent actively interacting with the hose and payment, I can comfortably stand around. Anything more than that and I have to find something else to do while my car is occupied.
      - derekp7 8y ago
        And that's the beauty of electric charging -- you actually CAN go do something else for that half hour, whereas with gas you have to stay in attendance of the pump (safety reasons). Which means that you can top off your charge while at the grocery store, or work, or whatever.
        anoncake 8y ago
        There arent that many things you can do within half an hour at a charging station.
mft_ 8y ago
Right now, it's not great. I say this having looked into an EV recently as an option. At the moment, my personal conclusion is that I'd need to rent a garage space, and then pay to have a charging point installed. There are a small but growing number of street chargers available, albeit owned by different groups (presumably with rules and different payment routes) and with different changing and connection specifications. [1] And of course, even if you're lucky enough to live fairly near a charging point, this doesn't make an EV comparable to an ICE car - as you then have the hassle/worry of finding a charging point, leaving your car where while it charges, and then presumably returning and moving it again, so as to free up the bay for someone else. It's not insurmountable, but would take serious commitment from local government to change things significantly for street parking. I suspect it will come with time, critical mass of EVs, and some degree of homogenisation of the voltage and connector specs. [1] https://www.plugshare.com https://www.plugshare.com
jakobegger 8y ago
I assume that sooner or later cities will just put charging columns on the street, like these: https://www.emcaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_3809-1080x675.jpeg https://www.emcaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_380... They don't need to support fast charging, 10kW AC would be more than enough when people charge overnight, and low power chargers like that should be pretty cheap to install at scale.
aloer 8y ago
I can’t remember which city or country but somewhere in Northern Europe too many people got EV too quickly for the existing charger infrastructure and they has to counter this by taking away or reducing planned city/state subsidy for new EV and artificially slow down growth Can’t find the article atm
cc439 8y ago
Extension cords duct taped down to the sidewalk so they don't pose a trip hazard?
vsl 8y ago
Norway has electric sockets next to parking spots. It predates EVs, something about 12V batteries and extreme cold around there.

aglavine 8y ago

public plugs

bastawhiz 8y ago

I've seen EV charging stations at offices and supermarkets in some pretty "old" places. I could imagine seeing them in more places where you park for a while.

issa 8y ago

A few possible answers and solutions: 1) People who live in urban residential areas in Europe don't typically drive very far on a daily basis. So charging doesn't have to be as common a thing as it is in the US. 2) Charging stations at work places. I don't know the numbers, but I would assume a decent percentage of Europeans who drive to work have a parking lot at their jobsite. 3) Highway rest stops. The "travel plaza" type of rest stop is common in europe and could accommodate intercity travelers. 4) Battery swapping technology may help down the road.

dariusj18 8y ago
5) A charging service (a truck with a big ass battery) that your car or you calls for and uses the car's gps to find and charge it. 6) Your car auto drives itself to the charging station and drives back during off hours. 7) All this is moot, electric and self driving technology will so absolutely revolutionize transportation that these problems will not be applicable.
HALtheWise 8y ago
There are other places we could imagine setting up chargers too, like at grocery markets or other stores. Because Tesla batteries (and some but not all other EVs) are massively oversized for a typical single day's drive, you probably only need to charge every 1-2 weeks unless you are taking a trip, in which case you use superchargers or such.

kokey 8y ago

I think the real future here is when automation develops enough so these cars can drive itself to and from a parking location nearby. This will free up the space on these streets taken up by existing cars, allow more space for traffic and for stops for passengers to get in and out of vehicles.

ashelmire 8y ago

You don't have gas pumps by street parking. Why should EVs be any different? Don't let your charge get so low that you can't make it to the nearest charging station.

mark-r 8y ago
It takes a LOT more time to charge than it does to fill a gas (petrol) tank. Thus the requirement to charge overnight.
- btilly 8y ago
  More time, yes. A lot more time? Filling a gas tank takes what, 10 minutes? Charging at a supercharger takes 30 minutes. That's more, but not ridiculously so. For comparison, getting the same charge at home from the recommended outlet takes 4 hours. Getting the same charge off of a home outlet is something like 36 hours. So yes, it can take a long time. But it doesn't have to.
  - mark-r 8y ago
    I'd be very surprised if it takes me more than 5 minutes with pay at the pump. It's a difference in magnitude that's the problem. For 5 minutes, of which half is spent actively interacting with the hose and payment, I can comfortably stand around. Anything more than that and I have to find something else to do while my car is occupied.
    - derekp7 8y ago
      And that's the beauty of electric charging -- you actually CAN go do something else for that half hour, whereas with gas you have to stay in attendance of the pump (safety reasons). Which means that you can top off your charge while at the grocery store, or work, or whatever.
      - anoncake 8y ago
        There arent that many things you can do within half an hour at a charging station.

mft_ 8y ago

Right now, it's not great. I say this having looked into an EV recently as an option. At the moment, my personal conclusion is that I'd need to rent a garage space, and then pay to have a charging point installed. There are a small but growing number of street chargers available, albeit owned by different groups (presumably with rules and different payment routes) and with different changing and connection specifications. [1] And of course, even if you're lucky enough to live fairly near a charging point, this doesn't make an EV comparable to an ICE car - as you then have the hassle/worry of finding a charging point, leaving your car where while it charges, and then presumably returning and moving it again, so as to free up the bay for someone else. It's not insurmountable, but would take serious commitment from local government to change things significantly for street parking. I suspect it will come with time, critical mass of EVs, and some degree of homogenisation of the voltage and connector specs. [1] https://www.plugshare.com https://www.plugshare.com

jakobegger 8y ago

I assume that sooner or later cities will just put charging columns on the street, like these: https://www.emcaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_3809-1080x675.jpeg https://www.emcaustria.at/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/IMG_380... They don't need to support fast charging, 10kW AC would be more than enough when people charge overnight, and low power chargers like that should be pretty cheap to install at scale.

aloer 8y ago

I can’t remember which city or country but somewhere in Northern Europe too many people got EV too quickly for the existing charger infrastructure and they has to counter this by taking away or reducing planned city/state subsidy for new EV and artificially slow down growth Can’t find the article atm

cc439 8y ago

Extension cords duct taped down to the sidewalk so they don't pose a trip hazard?

vsl 8y ago

Norway has electric sockets next to parking spots. It predates EVs, something about 12V batteries and extreme cold around there.