4 ms·

I hardly ever comment on HN (I usually lurk) but I felt compelled to due to the sheer amount of false claims in this comment. First off, can we define "things"

I hardly ever comment on HN (I usually lurk) but I felt compelled to due to the sheer amount of false claims in this comment. First off, can we define "things" in your sentence "things are actually cheaper, not more expensive"? What are the "things" you're talking about? Education? Eh... not really expensive in the US, is it? the US student loan debt is swelling at about $1.5 trillion... and counting. It speaks volume as to how costly education is in the US. [1] Healthcare? Hugely expensive for a country as "rich" as the US. Unless, of course, you work for a generous employer and in that case, everything is paid for. Wait a second, I'm told not all employers provide a healthcare plan along with a 401k plan? That's unfortunate. Let's also remind ourselves that the US doesn't provide universal healthcare for all its citizens unlike other advanced industrialized countries. So if you happen to be jobless? You're SOL. Awe-effing-some. Let's move on... [2] Housing? In SF/SV/NYC/Seattle/Washington/any major US city, housing is extremely expensive as is housing in any major European metropolis such as London/Paris/Munich/Zurich. I bet the $300,000 nice house you mention in your comment must be somewhere in the countryside where nobody lives, right? Let's make this clear: houses located in the middle of nowhere in any European country also cost zilch. Let's take France for instance: 30K euros gets you a 100 sqm house (even bigger sometimes) in the Creuse region. Yeah nobody wants to live there but hey at least I can own a large house for the price of a car. [3] I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on other topics such as Internet, groceries, rent or insurance. Your comment comes across as plain ignorant and downward complacent. I don't get this tendency of always sugarcoating the US, as though it would make it magically more appealing to the average Joe to move there. Please back up your claims next time with articles or sources. Just use your favourite search engine. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#/media/File:Student_loan_debt.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt#/media/File:Stude... [2]: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/26746... [3]: https://www.seloger.com/list.htm?enterprise=0&natures=1,2,4&places=%5b%7bcp%3a23%7d%5d&projects=2,5&qsversion=1.0&sort=a_px&types=2&LISTING-LISTpg=2 https://www.seloger.com/list.htm?enterprise=0&natures=1,2,4&...

aristophenes 8y ago
I just live and work in the USA my whole life, if anything I'm wrong about France. I'm not going to bother to refute most of your claims, as the premise is what are the salaries of tech people, not what are the standards of living of jobless people in San Francisco. Most of the US population, including myself and most of my acquaintances, live outside of those major cities, and that was the point I was making. You listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live. Education expenses are whatever you want to pay, we have plenty of choices including cheap choices, and generous scholarships for those that can't afford it but are smart.
- throwaway011010 8y ago
  Amazing. I just caught you out making stuff up and now you resort to making yet again even more stuff up: "Education expenses are whatever you want to pay" (yeah, let's just buy 1/10th of a Bachelor degree, sounds like a plan to cut the costs), "you listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live" (sure, nobody lives in major cities) (why the hell are they called major cities then? God knows). This conversation is leading nowhere so I'm just gonna stop responding.
  - aristophenes 8y ago
    https://www.bestvalueschools.com/most-affordable-universities-america/ https://www.bestvalueschools.com/most-affordable-universitie...
  - dang 8y ago
    We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Your points appear reasonable, but the personal attacks and nastiness with which you've made them are unacceptable here. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
vonmoltke 8y ago
> Education? Eh... not really expensive in the US, is it? the US student loan debt is swelling at about $1.5 trillion... and counting. It speaks volume as to how costly education is in the US. [1] Education in the US is not unavoidably expensive. Quoting student loan aggregates does nothing to account for the number of students who took tens or hundreds of thousands worth of loans they didn't really need because they rejected an affordable alternative in order to go to their target school. In 1998 I rejected my target school because attending would have cost me a minimum of $12,000/year out of pocket. I stayed local and graduated with no loans. 21 years later, if I started in 2019, I would still graduate without loans from that same school. > Healthcare? Hugely expensive for a country as "rich" as the US. Unless, of course, you work for a generous employer and in that case, everything is paid for. Wait a second, I'm told not all employers provide a healthcare plan along with a 401k plan? That's unfortunate. Let's also remind ourselves that the US doesn't provide universal healthcare for all its citizens unlike other advanced industrialized countries. So if you happen to be jobless? You're SOL. Awe-effing-some. Let's move on... [2] I don't have rebuttal to this point, but based on your tone I don't think you have any interest in discussing it in good faith anyway. > Housing? In SF/SV/NYC/Seattle/Washington/any major US city, housing is extremely expensive as is housing in any major European metropolis such as London/Paris/Munich/Zurich. I bet the $300,000 nice house you mention in your comment must be somewhere in the countryside where nobody lives, right? Let's make this clear: houses located in the middle of nowhere in any European country also cost zilch. Let's take France for instance: 30K euros gets you a 100 sqm house (even bigger sometimes) in the Creuse region. Yeah nobody wants to live there but hey at least I can own a large house for the price of a car. [3] "You bet" very wrong. The house I used to have in Dallas is worth $275,000 at the moment. Many of the houses in suburban New Jersey are less than $400,000, and some are even less than $300,000.[1] . Less stock in Maryland[2], but there are still many options. > I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on other topics such as Internet, groceries, rent or insurance. Your comment comes across as plain ignorant and downward complacent. I don't get this tendency of always sugarcoating the US, as though it would make it magically more appealing to the average Joe to move there. I'm sure you could, but it would just serve to further demonstrate your bias, condescension, and ignorance. > Please back up your claims next time with articles or sources. Just use your favourite search engine. The irony of this snark is that you have done a rather poor job of this yourself. [1] https://www.redfin.com/minorcivildivision/70/NJ/Lyndhurst-Township/filter/property-type=house,max-price=400k,viewport=40.82317:40.77749:-74.09938:-74.18221,no-outline https://www.redfin.com/minorcivildivision/70/NJ/Lyndhurst-To... [2] https://www.redfin.com/city/31343/MD/Wheaton/filter/property-type=house,max-price=400k,viewport=39.09586:39.00214:-76.98332:-77.14897,no-outline https://www.redfin.com/city/31343/MD/Wheaton/filter/property...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

aristophenes 8y ago

I just live and work in the USA my whole life, if anything I'm wrong about France. I'm not going to bother to refute most of your claims, as the premise is what are the salaries of tech people, not what are the standards of living of jobless people in San Francisco. Most of the US population, including myself and most of my acquaintances, live outside of those major cities, and that was the point I was making. You listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live. Education expenses are whatever you want to pay, we have plenty of choices including cheap choices, and generous scholarships for those that can't afford it but are smart.

throwaway011010 8y ago
Amazing. I just caught you out making stuff up and now you resort to making yet again even more stuff up: "Education expenses are whatever you want to pay" (yeah, let's just buy 1/10th of a Bachelor degree, sounds like a plan to cut the costs), "you listed off literally the most expensive places to live in the USA, where the majority of people do not live" (sure, nobody lives in major cities) (why the hell are they called major cities then? God knows). This conversation is leading nowhere so I'm just gonna stop responding.
- aristophenes 8y ago
  https://www.bestvalueschools.com/most-affordable-universities-america/ https://www.bestvalueschools.com/most-affordable-universitie...
- dang 8y ago
  We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines. Your points appear reasonable, but the personal attacks and nastiness with which you've made them are unacceptable here. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

vonmoltke 8y ago

> Education? Eh... not really expensive in the US, is it? the US student loan debt is swelling at about $1.5 trillion... and counting. It speaks volume as to how costly education is in the US. [1] Education in the US is not unavoidably expensive. Quoting student loan aggregates does nothing to account for the number of students who took tens or hundreds of thousands worth of loans they didn't really need because they rejected an affordable alternative in order to go to their target school. In 1998 I rejected my target school because attending would have cost me a minimum of $12,000/year out of pocket. I stayed local and graduated with no loans. 21 years later, if I started in 2019, I would still graduate without loans from that same school. > Healthcare? Hugely expensive for a country as "rich" as the US. Unless, of course, you work for a generous employer and in that case, everything is paid for. Wait a second, I'm told not all employers provide a healthcare plan along with a 401k plan? That's unfortunate. Let's also remind ourselves that the US doesn't provide universal healthcare for all its citizens unlike other advanced industrialized countries. So if you happen to be jobless? You're SOL. Awe-effing-some. Let's move on... [2] I don't have rebuttal to this point, but based on your tone I don't think you have any interest in discussing it in good faith anyway. > Housing? In SF/SV/NYC/Seattle/Washington/any major US city, housing is extremely expensive as is housing in any major European metropolis such as London/Paris/Munich/Zurich. I bet the $300,000 nice house you mention in your comment must be somewhere in the countryside where nobody lives, right? Let's make this clear: houses located in the middle of nowhere in any European country also cost zilch. Let's take France for instance: 30K euros gets you a 100 sqm house (even bigger sometimes) in the Creuse region. Yeah nobody wants to live there but hey at least I can own a large house for the price of a car. [3] "You bet" very wrong. The house I used to have in Dallas is worth $275,000 at the moment. Many of the houses in suburban New Jersey are less than $400,000, and some are even less than $300,000.[1] . Less stock in Maryland[2], but there are still many options. > I could go on and on. I haven't even touched on other topics such as Internet, groceries, rent or insurance. Your comment comes across as plain ignorant and downward complacent. I don't get this tendency of always sugarcoating the US, as though it would make it magically more appealing to the average Joe to move there. I'm sure you could, but it would just serve to further demonstrate your bias, condescension, and ignorance. > Please back up your claims next time with articles or sources. Just use your favourite search engine. The irony of this snark is that you have done a rather poor job of this yourself. [1] https://www.redfin.com/minorcivildivision/70/NJ/Lyndhurst-Township/filter/property-type=house,max-price=400k,viewport=40.82317:40.77749:-74.09938:-74.18221,no-outline https://www.redfin.com/minorcivildivision/70/NJ/Lyndhurst-To... [2] https://www.redfin.com/city/31343/MD/Wheaton/filter/property-type=house,max-price=400k,viewport=39.09586:39.00214:-76.98332:-77.14897,no-outline https://www.redfin.com/city/31343/MD/Wheaton/filter/property...

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]