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I think there is one reason why western governments are opposed to Huawei systems in their communications networks. Western governments have historically had mo

I think there is one reason why western governments are opposed to Huawei systems in their communications networks. Western governments have historically had more trust in the US being a partner they can rely on, which is not the case (yet) for the Chinese. All governments spy on each other, and they do whatever is necessary for their spying needs, the US, European nations as well as the Chinese. And I bet this includes exploiting Huawei/Cisco/Nokia/Motorolla hardware. Only difference is in this case for Germany: The US is more trusted than the Chinese. Thus the US/Europe get more leeway in these hardware purchases.

guitarbill 8y ago
"trusted" is a very optimistic way of putting it. but better the devil you know (e.g. Cisco/NSA) than the devil you don't.
- _trampeltier 8y ago
  That's very true. But also today all telco company's are really private company's and so the government can't tell them so easy buy this because we like to spy our own people.
  - kamarg 8y ago
    At least in the US, I think it's easier than you think for the government to get what they want from the telcos. AT&T and their retroactive immunity set a pretty strong example that if you play nice with the government bad things won't happen to you.
mrweasel 8y ago
While I agree that Huawei shouldn't be trusted, I find it hypocritical that western governments don't mind their own companies working with Huawei to install western build surveillance hardware and software in Huawei managed networks.
frotak 8y ago
Western governments have historically been allied with and have had intelligence sharing and cooperation arrangements with the U.S. There is a general alignment of Western intelligence agencies as a cooperative group against the antagonism of China (and Russia, NK, etc) It isn't just "everybody spies" - it's "we are actively engaged in an adversarial relationship together against this other group"
- SEJeff 8y ago
  In addition, there is a "special" arrangement between 5 western allies called the "five eyes"[1]. Between the five partners, they cover internet backbone infra for much of the world. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
  - wolfgke 8y ago
    Germany is not part of the Five Eyes alliance.
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      They never claimed Germany was. The wiki link in GP doesn't list Germany as being a part of the five eyes.
      - wolfgke 8y ago
        > They never claimed Germany was. The article is about Germany.
        SEJeff 8y ago
        and much of the EU internet traffic, including to/from germany, goes through the UK. I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted for pointing out a relevant fact on US and western allies who share intel and basically have tapped most all of the fiber in the world via legal or illegal methods (per the snowden docs).
onetimemanytime 8y ago
More or less USA and Germany both want democracy, albeit with their local flavor. Free trade, human rights etc. If US spies (and gets its way), Germany might get their execs jailed for corruption or might lose a bid for, say, airplane engines. If China / Russia spy and get their way...we know what would happen.
- cronix 8y ago
  What happened after it was known that the NSA had tapped Merkels phone? Nada.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    German NSA people privately said, "wow, smart sons of b*tches those NSA guys. Wish we could do that to Obama"
    - cf141q5325 8y ago
      German spy agencies were aiding and abetting the NSA in the surveillance of the German population and looked the other way when it came to politicians and industry. That a NSA lapdog is critical of Huwai is no surprise.
  - wolfgke 8y ago
    > What happened after it was known that the NSA had tapped Merkels phone? Nada. For understanding Germany, you always have to keep in mind that there is a deep ditch between the "political interests" of the government and the "political interests" of many citizens (that is also the reason why you will harly hear any German citizens speaking of "unsere Regierung" (our government), but of "die Regierung" (the government)). The government is rather attached to the USA (that is why of course nothing happened after the NSA tapped Merkel's phone), while many citizens are deeply sceptical of it, be it for - industrial espionage that was done on Enercon by the USA (see https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlantic-espionage-claimed-german-wind-company https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlant...) - very different beliefs on data privacy - the Snowden leaks - Donald Trump - ...
deleted 8y ago
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guitarbill 8y ago

"trusted" is a very optimistic way of putting it. but better the devil you know (e.g. Cisco/NSA) than the devil you don't.

_trampeltier 8y ago
That's very true. But also today all telco company's are really private company's and so the government can't tell them so easy buy this because we like to spy our own people.
- kamarg 8y ago
  At least in the US, I think it's easier than you think for the government to get what they want from the telcos. AT&T and their retroactive immunity set a pretty strong example that if you play nice with the government bad things won't happen to you.

mrweasel 8y ago

While I agree that Huawei shouldn't be trusted, I find it hypocritical that western governments don't mind their own companies working with Huawei to install western build surveillance hardware and software in Huawei managed networks.

frotak 8y ago

Western governments have historically been allied with and have had intelligence sharing and cooperation arrangements with the U.S. There is a general alignment of Western intelligence agencies as a cooperative group against the antagonism of China (and Russia, NK, etc) It isn't just "everybody spies" - it's "we are actively engaged in an adversarial relationship together against this other group"

SEJeff 8y ago
In addition, there is a "special" arrangement between 5 western allies called the "five eyes"[1]. Between the five partners, they cover internet backbone infra for much of the world. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes
- wolfgke 8y ago
  Germany is not part of the Five Eyes alliance.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    They never claimed Germany was. The wiki link in GP doesn't list Germany as being a part of the five eyes.
    - wolfgke 8y ago
      > They never claimed Germany was. The article is about Germany.
      - SEJeff 8y ago
        and much of the EU internet traffic, including to/from germany, goes through the UK. I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted for pointing out a relevant fact on US and western allies who share intel and basically have tapped most all of the fiber in the world via legal or illegal methods (per the snowden docs).

onetimemanytime 8y ago

More or less USA and Germany both want democracy, albeit with their local flavor. Free trade, human rights etc. If US spies (and gets its way), Germany might get their execs jailed for corruption or might lose a bid for, say, airplane engines. If China / Russia spy and get their way...we know what would happen.

cronix 8y ago
What happened after it was known that the NSA had tapped Merkels phone? Nada.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  German NSA people privately said, "wow, smart sons of b*tches those NSA guys. Wish we could do that to Obama"
  - cf141q5325 8y ago
    German spy agencies were aiding and abetting the NSA in the surveillance of the German population and looked the other way when it came to politicians and industry. That a NSA lapdog is critical of Huwai is no surprise.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  > What happened after it was known that the NSA had tapped Merkels phone? Nada. For understanding Germany, you always have to keep in mind that there is a deep ditch between the "political interests" of the government and the "political interests" of many citizens (that is also the reason why you will harly hear any German citizens speaking of "unsere Regierung" (our government), but of "die Regierung" (the government)). The government is rather attached to the USA (that is why of course nothing happened after the NSA tapped Merkel's phone), while many citizens are deeply sceptical of it, be it for - industrial espionage that was done on Enercon by the USA (see https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlantic-espionage-claimed-german-wind-company https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlant...) - very different beliefs on data privacy - the Snowden leaks - Donald Trump - ...

deleted 8y ago

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