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Coast-to-coast AP demo was promised before Eo2017. Still waiting. Meanwhile, the AP cannot handle traffic lights, city traffic, conditions of bad weather, secti

Coast-to-coast AP demo was promised before Eo2017. Still waiting. Meanwhile, the AP cannot handle traffic lights, city traffic, conditions of bad weather, sections of road with poor or temporary lanes, it crashes to high-vis large stationary objects directly in line of sight and travel, yada yada. They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises with, so claiming that "enabling automatic driving on city streets and highways pending regulatory approval" is very deceptive and insincere with potential customers.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
So you admit it was not a lie. The coast-to-coast demo for EoY 2017 was not a promise either, but a goal. Elon Musk, 2017: >Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York — so, basically, from a home in L.A. to, let’s say, dropping you off in Times Square, in New York, then having the car go and park itself by the end of next year — without the need for a single touch, including the charging. Elon Musk, 2018: >I’ve been meaning to address this, because obviously I missed the mark on that front. I mean, focus was very much on Model 3 production so everything else kind of took a second place to that. We could have done the coast-to-coast drive but it would have required too much specialized code to effectively game it, or make it somewhat brittle in that it would work for one particular route but not be a general solution. Who's hyping things up here? >They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises (...) So now you say "they don't seem to", because you don't know? Okay.
- unityByFreedom 8y ago
  Ridiculous amounts of pedantry here. Apparently companies can't lie because they have goals, according to a two year old account, 1/3 of whose comments are about Tesla.
- jfoster 8y ago
  It's a funny concept. People who haven't even purchased the product feel that the company has promised them things and feel aggravated if those "promises" go unfulfilled. In reality, Tesla is a company with such ambitious goals that they often fail only to later succeed. The fact that so many people want to tear them down for that is very sad.
  - iainmerrick 8y ago
    “Lying” is strong, but it’s over-promising and under-delivering. It’s reasonable to take their current goals with a large pinch of salt.
    - jfoster 8y ago
      They're not promising. They're sharing their ambitious goals. If you only have goals that you already know you can meet or if you always attain your goals, you're aiming too low.
      - iainmerrick 8y ago
        From earlier in this thread: ”Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York” I guess it depends whether you interpret that “I feel good about this goal” means “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” or just “having this goal makes me feel good.” I think we’re at least partly agreeing. Tesla just has a very different approach here than, say, Apple. That’s not inherently bad but I personally don’t like it. I see it as excessive hype.
        magicalhippo 8y ago
        > “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” That's still not promising anything though. It's setting expectations, but failing to meet expectations is not the same as failing to meet promises. If I buy a movie ticket I can get disappointed about the film being bad (failing to meet expectation of enjoyment), but I'd get upset if they cancelled the screening after I bought a ticket (failing to meet promise of viewing).
        jfoster 8y ago
        I guess my question would be... There's thousands or tens of thousands of businesses not meeting their stated goals. Why do you care so much about tearing down this particular one? Perhaps you follow $tslaq on Twitter or perhaps not. Take a look. They're so toxic and focused on negativity around Tesla. It's senseless. If I don't believe in a business, I just ignore it. With Tesla there seems to be people who are religious or obsessed with hoping that they fail. That's pretty weird considering that pretty much all of humankind benefits from a better world should they succeed.
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  Who's hyping things up here? Musk. No-one made him promise (sorry, offer a "goal") of coast-to-coast driving but himself and his ego. He even admits that _he_ missed the mark he offered, but still you blame _us_ for having unrealistic expectations.
  - vsl 8y ago
    More like for being an ass about it. Volkswagen is promising (to use your terms) to produce millions of cheap EVs in 2019... err, 2020... er, by 2025. They’re doing that for years, without producing barely anything. Meanwhile Tesla is overly optimistic, sets high goals, fails on some of them, is late, but still actually delivers a shitload of great stuff. Yes, I’m still waiting on some things them dreamt about when I bought the car. OTOH, I’m happy with the purchase and the car got dramatically improved software-wise since I bought it, well beyond any other manufacturer’s abilities.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

So you admit it was not a lie. The coast-to-coast demo for EoY 2017 was not a promise either, but a goal. Elon Musk, 2017: >Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York — so, basically, from a home in L.A. to, let’s say, dropping you off in Times Square, in New York, then having the car go and park itself by the end of next year — without the need for a single touch, including the charging. Elon Musk, 2018: >I’ve been meaning to address this, because obviously I missed the mark on that front. I mean, focus was very much on Model 3 production so everything else kind of took a second place to that. We could have done the coast-to-coast drive but it would have required too much specialized code to effectively game it, or make it somewhat brittle in that it would work for one particular route but not be a general solution. Who's hyping things up here? >They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises (...) So now you say "they don't seem to", because you don't know? Okay.

unityByFreedom 8y ago
Ridiculous amounts of pedantry here. Apparently companies can't lie because they have goals, according to a two year old account, 1/3 of whose comments are about Tesla.
jfoster 8y ago
It's a funny concept. People who haven't even purchased the product feel that the company has promised them things and feel aggravated if those "promises" go unfulfilled. In reality, Tesla is a company with such ambitious goals that they often fail only to later succeed. The fact that so many people want to tear them down for that is very sad.
- iainmerrick 8y ago
  “Lying” is strong, but it’s over-promising and under-delivering. It’s reasonable to take their current goals with a large pinch of salt.
  - jfoster 8y ago
    They're not promising. They're sharing their ambitious goals. If you only have goals that you already know you can meet or if you always attain your goals, you're aiming too low.
    - iainmerrick 8y ago
      From earlier in this thread: ”Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York” I guess it depends whether you interpret that “I feel good about this goal” means “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” or just “having this goal makes me feel good.” I think we’re at least partly agreeing. Tesla just has a very different approach here than, say, Apple. That’s not inherently bad but I personally don’t like it. I see it as excessive hype.
      - magicalhippo 8y ago
        > “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” That's still not promising anything though. It's setting expectations, but failing to meet expectations is not the same as failing to meet promises. If I buy a movie ticket I can get disappointed about the film being bad (failing to meet expectation of enjoyment), but I'd get upset if they cancelled the screening after I bought a ticket (failing to meet promise of viewing).
      - jfoster 8y ago
        I guess my question would be... There's thousands or tens of thousands of businesses not meeting their stated goals. Why do you care so much about tearing down this particular one? Perhaps you follow $tslaq on Twitter or perhaps not. Take a look. They're so toxic and focused on negativity around Tesla. It's senseless. If I don't believe in a business, I just ignore it. With Tesla there seems to be people who are religious or obsessed with hoping that they fail. That's pretty weird considering that pretty much all of humankind benefits from a better world should they succeed.
FireBeyond 8y ago
Who's hyping things up here? Musk. No-one made him promise (sorry, offer a "goal") of coast-to-coast driving but himself and his ego. He even admits that _he_ missed the mark he offered, but still you blame _us_ for having unrealistic expectations.
- vsl 8y ago
  More like for being an ass about it. Volkswagen is promising (to use your terms) to produce millions of cheap EVs in 2019... err, 2020... er, by 2025. They’re doing that for years, without producing barely anything. Meanwhile Tesla is overly optimistic, sets high goals, fails on some of them, is late, but still actually delivers a shitload of great stuff. Yes, I’m still waiting on some things them dreamt about when I bought the car. OTOH, I’m happy with the purchase and the car got dramatically improved software-wise since I bought it, well beyond any other manufacturer’s abilities.