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> You're blatantly wrong. Training a classifier to determine if a previously unseen image contains nudity is easier than training a classifier to determine if a

> You're blatantly wrong. Training a classifier to determine if a previously unseen image contains nudity is easier than training a classifier to determine if a previously unseen image contains a nude 18 year old or a nude 17 year old. Why is it so hard to believe that there exists a solution to this that's much easier than training an image classifier? As I've explained elsewhere, multiple times, this is a solved problem. There's no image analysis required.

darkpuma 8y ago
> previously unseen You missed that part. That requires classification, either by a human or by an algorithm. There is no way around it.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > You missed that part. That requires classification, either by a human or by an algorithm. There is no way around it. I did not miss anything. "Previously unseen" only matters if your primary means of identifying people who share child porn is based on analyzing the content of images. I'm very aware of how these systems work, not just at Tumblr but in the industry at large at other, larger companies. I'm not just speculating here; this is literally how NCMEC works and what they expect of companies that host user-generated content.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    For years tumblr neglected to address the issue of teenagers that haven't been trafficked or otherwise gone missing, posting pictures of themselves that did not exist in any database. That is the issue they addressed by banning all pornography, removing any ambiguity over whether any particular never-seen-before image was permitted or banned. NCMEC is out of scope here. They do not have magical powers that allow them to distinguish between an 18 year old or a 17 year old uploading pictures of themselves. You may not like it, I can tell you're very upset at tumblr banning pornography, but this is the reality. Throw around as many of your qualifications as you like, it changes nothing.
    - chimeracoder 8y ago
      > NCMEC is out of scope here. They do not have magical powers that allow them to distinguish between an 18 year old or a 17 year old uploading pictures of themselves. NCMEC doesn't need those "magical powers" because NCMEC does not care about the latter. That's not their mandate. Hacker News loves to talk about age-of-consent and child pornography in the context of 17 year olds, but that's simply not relevant here. That's not the issue that Tumblr was facing pressure from. > Throw around as many of your qualifications as you like, it changes nothing. It sounds like you're so convinced in your own beliefs that even direct, firsthand knowledge of the inside situation won't change your mind, in which case you're right - there's no point in continuing this conversation. You may not like that I know what actually went on here, and I can tell you're very upset that the actual facts about how NCMEC works and why Tumblr internally chose to make their decision don't support your narrative, but that's the reality. Whether you choose to believe it or not, it changes nothing.
      - darkpuma 8y ago
        > "because NCMEC does not care about the latter." And nor do you it seems, but tumblr now does. They've been forced to. You may not like it, but that's the reality of how tumblr is now operating. Tumblr can no longer turn a blind eye to any form of child pornography, and is no longer turning a blind eye to any form of child pornography. Tumblr didn't ban all pornography for shits and giggles. They did it because given the current legal and social landscape it was their only economically viable option.

darkpuma 8y ago

> previously unseen You missed that part. That requires classification, either by a human or by an algorithm. There is no way around it.

chimeracoder 8y ago
> You missed that part. That requires classification, either by a human or by an algorithm. There is no way around it. I did not miss anything. "Previously unseen" only matters if your primary means of identifying people who share child porn is based on analyzing the content of images. I'm very aware of how these systems work, not just at Tumblr but in the industry at large at other, larger companies. I'm not just speculating here; this is literally how NCMEC works and what they expect of companies that host user-generated content.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  For years tumblr neglected to address the issue of teenagers that haven't been trafficked or otherwise gone missing, posting pictures of themselves that did not exist in any database. That is the issue they addressed by banning all pornography, removing any ambiguity over whether any particular never-seen-before image was permitted or banned. NCMEC is out of scope here. They do not have magical powers that allow them to distinguish between an 18 year old or a 17 year old uploading pictures of themselves. You may not like it, I can tell you're very upset at tumblr banning pornography, but this is the reality. Throw around as many of your qualifications as you like, it changes nothing.
  - chimeracoder 8y ago
    > NCMEC is out of scope here. They do not have magical powers that allow them to distinguish between an 18 year old or a 17 year old uploading pictures of themselves. NCMEC doesn't need those "magical powers" because NCMEC does not care about the latter. That's not their mandate. Hacker News loves to talk about age-of-consent and child pornography in the context of 17 year olds, but that's simply not relevant here. That's not the issue that Tumblr was facing pressure from. > Throw around as many of your qualifications as you like, it changes nothing. It sounds like you're so convinced in your own beliefs that even direct, firsthand knowledge of the inside situation won't change your mind, in which case you're right - there's no point in continuing this conversation. You may not like that I know what actually went on here, and I can tell you're very upset that the actual facts about how NCMEC works and why Tumblr internally chose to make their decision don't support your narrative, but that's the reality. Whether you choose to believe it or not, it changes nothing.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      > "because NCMEC does not care about the latter." And nor do you it seems, but tumblr now does. They've been forced to. You may not like it, but that's the reality of how tumblr is now operating. Tumblr can no longer turn a blind eye to any form of child pornography, and is no longer turning a blind eye to any form of child pornography. Tumblr didn't ban all pornography for shits and giggles. They did it because given the current legal and social landscape it was their only economically viable option.