4 ms·

Nope, Tesla is still blatantly lying.

by x38iq84n 8y ago

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
That we don't know. And we know that you don't know either. So who's a liar?
- x38iq84n 8y ago
  Coast-to-coast AP demo was promised before Eo2017. Still waiting. Meanwhile, the AP cannot handle traffic lights, city traffic, conditions of bad weather, sections of road with poor or temporary lanes, it crashes to high-vis large stationary objects directly in line of sight and travel, yada yada. They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises with, so claiming that "enabling automatic driving on city streets and highways pending regulatory approval" is very deceptive and insincere with potential customers.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
    So you admit it was not a lie. The coast-to-coast demo for EoY 2017 was not a promise either, but a goal. Elon Musk, 2017: >Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York — so, basically, from a home in L.A. to, let’s say, dropping you off in Times Square, in New York, then having the car go and park itself by the end of next year — without the need for a single touch, including the charging. Elon Musk, 2018: >I’ve been meaning to address this, because obviously I missed the mark on that front. I mean, focus was very much on Model 3 production so everything else kind of took a second place to that. We could have done the coast-to-coast drive but it would have required too much specialized code to effectively game it, or make it somewhat brittle in that it would work for one particular route but not be a general solution. Who's hyping things up here? >They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises (...) So now you say "they don't seem to", because you don't know? Okay.
    - unityByFreedom 8y ago
      Ridiculous amounts of pedantry here. Apparently companies can't lie because they have goals, according to a two year old account, 1/3 of whose comments are about Tesla.
    - jfoster 8y ago
      It's a funny concept. People who haven't even purchased the product feel that the company has promised them things and feel aggravated if those "promises" go unfulfilled. In reality, Tesla is a company with such ambitious goals that they often fail only to later succeed. The fact that so many people want to tear them down for that is very sad.
      - iainmerrick 8y ago
        “Lying” is strong, but it’s over-promising and under-delivering. It’s reasonable to take their current goals with a large pinch of salt.
        jfoster 8y ago
        They're not promising. They're sharing their ambitious goals. If you only have goals that you already know you can meet or if you always attain your goals, you're aiming too low.
        iainmerrick 8y ago
        From earlier in this thread: ”Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York” I guess it depends whether you interpret that “I feel good about this goal” means “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” or just “having this goal makes me feel good.” I think we’re at least partly agreeing. Tesla just has a very different approach here than, say, Apple. That’s not inherently bad but I personally don’t like it. I see it as excessive hype.
        8y ago
- cmsonger 8y ago
  > So who's a liar? "Liar" is a stronger word than I would use, but given the claims (including dates) that Tesla made when I purchased an S100D in early 2017 -- seems like the answer is Tesla. If not "liar", at least incredibly dramatically wrong about what they actually delivered for EAP and FSD. I'd say the burden of proof is now firmly on Tesla as they've made and missed a number of claims about the performance of their automation features.
- jeremyjh 8y ago
  They are implying that AP is complete and it works, and they are just waiting on approval. This is not true.
  - leesec 8y ago
    They are implying that it WILL be complete. The Model Y doesn't ship until end of 2020.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      He said not two weeks ago that you will be able to self drive coast to coast, "this year", apropos of any shipping date for the Y.
- paulcole 8y ago
  Agreed. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Elon Musk who has an unparalleled track record of honesty...
- deegles 8y ago
  Someone can say they've home-built a rocket and flown to the moon, and I don't have to be an aerospace expert to call BS.
Rooster61 8y ago
But Musk never lies. I mean, I've never seen him say things that were utterly untrue to drive stoc- sees SEC crackdowns on twitter posts .....Ohhhhh, right

Nope, Tesla is still blatantly lying.

rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago

That we don't know. And we know that you don't know either. So who's a liar?

x38iq84n 8y ago
Coast-to-coast AP demo was promised before Eo2017. Still waiting. Meanwhile, the AP cannot handle traffic lights, city traffic, conditions of bad weather, sections of road with poor or temporary lanes, it crashes to high-vis large stationary objects directly in line of sight and travel, yada yada. They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises with, so claiming that "enabling automatic driving on city streets and highways pending regulatory approval" is very deceptive and insincere with potential customers.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 8y ago
  So you admit it was not a lie. The coast-to-coast demo for EoY 2017 was not a promise either, but a goal. Elon Musk, 2017: >Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York — so, basically, from a home in L.A. to, let’s say, dropping you off in Times Square, in New York, then having the car go and park itself by the end of next year — without the need for a single touch, including the charging. Elon Musk, 2018: >I’ve been meaning to address this, because obviously I missed the mark on that front. I mean, focus was very much on Model 3 production so everything else kind of took a second place to that. We could have done the coast-to-coast drive but it would have required too much specialized code to effectively game it, or make it somewhat brittle in that it would work for one particular route but not be a general solution. Who's hyping things up here? >They don't seem to have anything solid to back up the promises (...) So now you say "they don't seem to", because you don't know? Okay.
  - unityByFreedom 8y ago
    Ridiculous amounts of pedantry here. Apparently companies can't lie because they have goals, according to a two year old account, 1/3 of whose comments are about Tesla.
  - jfoster 8y ago
    It's a funny concept. People who haven't even purchased the product feel that the company has promised them things and feel aggravated if those "promises" go unfulfilled. In reality, Tesla is a company with such ambitious goals that they often fail only to later succeed. The fact that so many people want to tear them down for that is very sad.
    - iainmerrick 8y ago
      “Lying” is strong, but it’s over-promising and under-delivering. It’s reasonable to take their current goals with a large pinch of salt.
      - jfoster 8y ago
        They're not promising. They're sharing their ambitious goals. If you only have goals that you already know you can meet or if you always attain your goals, you're aiming too low.
        iainmerrick 8y ago
        From earlier in this thread: ”Our goal is — I feel pretty good about this goal — is that we’ll be able to do a demonstration drive of full autonomy, all the way from L.A. to New York” I guess it depends whether you interpret that “I feel good about this goal” means “I think we have a good chance of achieving this” or just “having this goal makes me feel good.” I think we’re at least partly agreeing. Tesla just has a very different approach here than, say, Apple. That’s not inherently bad but I personally don’t like it. I see it as excessive hype.
        8y ago
cmsonger 8y ago
> So who's a liar? "Liar" is a stronger word than I would use, but given the claims (including dates) that Tesla made when I purchased an S100D in early 2017 -- seems like the answer is Tesla. If not "liar", at least incredibly dramatically wrong about what they actually delivered for EAP and FSD. I'd say the burden of proof is now firmly on Tesla as they've made and missed a number of claims about the performance of their automation features.
jeremyjh 8y ago
They are implying that AP is complete and it works, and they are just waiting on approval. This is not true.
- leesec 8y ago
  They are implying that it WILL be complete. The Model Y doesn't ship until end of 2020.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    He said not two weeks ago that you will be able to self drive coast to coast, "this year", apropos of any shipping date for the Y.
paulcole 8y ago
Agreed. I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Elon Musk who has an unparalleled track record of honesty...
deegles 8y ago
Someone can say they've home-built a rocket and flown to the moon, and I don't have to be an aerospace expert to call BS.

Rooster61 8y ago

But Musk never lies. I mean, I've never seen him say things that were utterly untrue to drive stoc- sees SEC crackdowns on twitter posts .....Ohhhhh, right