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I think Apple is going to find itself standing alone by the time the dust settles on this issue. Their 30% tax is a disservice to its own customers, not just ap

by zaidf 8y ago

I think Apple is going to find itself standing alone by the time the dust settles on this issue. Their 30% tax is a disservice to its own customers, not just app publishers. Apple tries to counter that the problem is Spotify. It's Spotify that is money-hungry, Apple claims: Underneath the rhetoric, Spotify’s aim is to make more money off others’ work. The only problem with this argument is that Spotify is just one example. App publishers of all sizes have expressed grave dissatisfaction over this issue. Ultimately, this has led to a poorer experience for Apple's own customers in the form of higher fees for in-app purchases or weird, convoluted checkout flow that requires you to goto your browser to finish a transaction.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Apple won't find itself standing alone. Other major distributors like Google and Valve are both happy to take 30% off the top of app sales too, and if the chance comes to speak up in support, they will. But the difference is both of them can be circumvented by competitors, for instance Epic Games, who is challenging both. (Epic is launching an Android store soon.) Apple can't be, and that's likely to be the crux of any action against them.
- chrischen 8y ago
  I currently subscribe to Spotify, use the iOS Spotify App, and do not make payments through in-app payments nor do I pay the 30% Apple tax. So it is circumventable, and Spotify is just "optimizing" their revenues here. So at least compared to Steam, Apple's platform is actually more open since you aren't required to pay through Apple's platform. Though I'm not sure on the current requirements for in-app purchases, so correct me if I'm wrong.
  - social_quotient 8y ago
    Discussion or capture of money must go through apple. The hinting of circumventing has to be really vague And creates a weird ux. IMO you have to follow the rules and pay the toll https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-...
  - snorlaxle 8y ago
    I buy Steam games from Humble Bundle all the time. The developers can actually generate steam keys and sell their game directly. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys As far as I know you can't do that on iOS. There's also nothing stopping the devs from selling IAP themselves on their own website. So no, Steam is much much more open than Apple's App store. Not to mention the fact that Steam is completely optional and the App store is not.
    - madeofpalk 8y ago
      > As far as I know you can't do that on iOS. Not at scale, no, but you can generate promo codes (up to a limit - maybe 100?) to distribute your paid app for free.
- zaidf 8y ago
  But the difference is both of them can be circumvented by competitors If the App Store could be circumvented as easily, Spotify probably wouldn't be raising this issue to begin with.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    It can be circumvented quite easily and Spotify already does. You can upgrade to Spotify Premium through a website which they advertise during their free tier ads.
    - gtyras2mrs 8y ago
      I think Spotify's complaint here is that they can't tell users of the iOS app to upgrade via the website. Apple doesn't allow that apparently.
- LoSboccacc 8y ago
  steam gets 30% of sales from within the steam storefront, but O from sales of steam keys from other channels epic is not the saviour here, they're dumping cash to bring shitty console practices to the pc ecosystem, namely storefront exclusives
segphault 8y ago
Yup. Another prominent example is Amazon’s inability to sell books in the Kindle application on iOS, which has the same anticompetitive undertones given that Apple sells ebooks to users of its platform.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Just like other online book shops don't sell their books on the Kindle device store app.
  - hamandcheese 8y ago
    But, at the very least, Amazon doesn’t prevent you from reading ebooks from outside their store on a kindle. They just don’t favilate their discovery. (Unless things changed since I last owned a kindle which was quite a while ago)
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Just like Apple does when you import books via iTunes.
      - m000 8y ago
        Big fan of iTunes, aren't you?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Big fan of pointing out hate agenda of others, that leave details out to make their points.
    - threeseed 8y ago
      Apple allows you to have PDFs and ePub files in their Books app as well. So not sure what you mean.
    - SalimoS 8y ago
redwall_hp 8y ago
Let's not forget that you can't buy Kindle books on iOS because of this policy. Apple wants 30% of the cost of every book, which would kill Amazon's margin. (Of course, this is just businesses fighting over the lion's share of the money; the publisher is only going to give the author ten cents on the dollar in royalties anyway.) But Apple will happily sell you books in their store, which smells like anticompetitive behavior. Steam Link faces a similar issue. Apple, apparently, considers buying desktop games through an app that can remotely play them on your phone to be the same situation, and demand that payments go through them.

by zaidf 8y ago

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

Apple won't find itself standing alone. Other major distributors like Google and Valve are both happy to take 30% off the top of app sales too, and if the chance comes to speak up in support, they will. But the difference is both of them can be circumvented by competitors, for instance Epic Games, who is challenging both. (Epic is launching an Android store soon.) Apple can't be, and that's likely to be the crux of any action against them.

chrischen 8y ago
I currently subscribe to Spotify, use the iOS Spotify App, and do not make payments through in-app payments nor do I pay the 30% Apple tax. So it is circumventable, and Spotify is just "optimizing" their revenues here. So at least compared to Steam, Apple's platform is actually more open since you aren't required to pay through Apple's platform. Though I'm not sure on the current requirements for in-app purchases, so correct me if I'm wrong.
- social_quotient 8y ago
  Discussion or capture of money must go through apple. The hinting of circumventing has to be really vague And creates a weird ux. IMO you have to follow the rules and pay the toll https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-...
- snorlaxle 8y ago
  I buy Steam games from Humble Bundle all the time. The developers can actually generate steam keys and sell their game directly. https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys As far as I know you can't do that on iOS. There's also nothing stopping the devs from selling IAP themselves on their own website. So no, Steam is much much more open than Apple's App store. Not to mention the fact that Steam is completely optional and the App store is not.
  - madeofpalk 8y ago
    > As far as I know you can't do that on iOS. Not at scale, no, but you can generate promo codes (up to a limit - maybe 100?) to distribute your paid app for free.
zaidf 8y ago
But the difference is both of them can be circumvented by competitors If the App Store could be circumvented as easily, Spotify probably wouldn't be raising this issue to begin with.
- threeseed 8y ago
  It can be circumvented quite easily and Spotify already does. You can upgrade to Spotify Premium through a website which they advertise during their free tier ads.
  - gtyras2mrs 8y ago
    I think Spotify's complaint here is that they can't tell users of the iOS app to upgrade via the website. Apple doesn't allow that apparently.
LoSboccacc 8y ago
steam gets 30% of sales from within the steam storefront, but O from sales of steam keys from other channels epic is not the saviour here, they're dumping cash to bring shitty console practices to the pc ecosystem, namely storefront exclusives

segphault 8y ago

Yup. Another prominent example is Amazon’s inability to sell books in the Kindle application on iOS, which has the same anticompetitive undertones given that Apple sells ebooks to users of its platform.

pjmlp 8y ago
Just like other online book shops don't sell their books on the Kindle device store app.
- hamandcheese 8y ago
  But, at the very least, Amazon doesn’t prevent you from reading ebooks from outside their store on a kindle. They just don’t favilate their discovery. (Unless things changed since I last owned a kindle which was quite a while ago)
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Just like Apple does when you import books via iTunes.
    - m000 8y ago
      Big fan of iTunes, aren't you?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        Big fan of pointing out hate agenda of others, that leave details out to make their points.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Apple allows you to have PDFs and ePub files in their Books app as well. So not sure what you mean.
  - SalimoS 8y ago

redwall_hp 8y ago

Let's not forget that you can't buy Kindle books on iOS because of this policy. Apple wants 30% of the cost of every book, which would kill Amazon's margin. (Of course, this is just businesses fighting over the lion's share of the money; the publisher is only going to give the author ten cents on the dollar in royalties anyway.) But Apple will happily sell you books in their store, which smells like anticompetitive behavior. Steam Link faces a similar issue. Apple, apparently, considers buying desktop games through an app that can remotely play them on your phone to be the same situation, and demand that payments go through them.