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I don't doubt the line is much more efficient and flexible as claimed, but the article doesn't do a very good job explaining exactly how the gains are achieved

I don't doubt the line is much more efficient and flexible as claimed, but the article doesn't do a very good job explaining exactly how the gains are achieved beyond hand-waving about clever contraptions that are faster than robots and the ability to dynamically move stations around. It seems difficult to imagine that hordes of industrial engineers haven't done the calculations on each of these methods countless times at all car manufacturing companies. There must be deeper, more subtle factors that explain why Toyota's particular combination of techniques yields such superior results. Perhaps it's just the culmination of a lot of long-tail optimizations that only Toyota has had time and capital to let mature or maybe there really is just "one secret trick" that underpins it all - the article doesn't really give a good sense of what it might be. In either case it'd be interesting to see a detailed breakdown with numbers comparing the various lines with explanations for why particular decisions were or weren't made to truly understand why the system works so well.

georgeek 8y ago
That's the whole concept of kaizen, or improvement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen
_pmf_ 8y ago
> There must be deeper, more subtle factors that explain why Toyota's particular combination of techniques yields such superior results. Why? That's how engineering works; small improvements aggregated over time.
- nkoren 8y ago
  No, that's how certain types of engineering optimisations work, but as a process is susceptible to getting stuck in local minima. This is clearly a different type of optimisation, requiring the simultaneous adoption of a number of different yet complementary techniques.
  - linksnapzz 8y ago
    For anybody that cares, much of this process has its origins in Taiichi Ohno's work in the '70s. His original "Toyota Production System" book of 1978, which is still in print, is short, accessible, and enormously enlightening. Likewise, a comparative study of why the Toyota system works in comparison with other manufacturing approaches is the 2nd edition of Womack's "Machine that Changed the World". Also, other books by Shingo, Imai, Deming et al. have lots of good information.
spyckie2 8y ago
it sounds like the benefits of the line is the flexibility, not necessarily efficiency gains. I think the idea of the article is that fixed production is a business weakness in today's fast moving consumer market. This also doesn't sound like something Tesla needs yet, as this seems to be great for building different types of cars based on demand rather than maxing a single car output.
- FPGAhacker 8y ago
  I thought this was basically what Tesla had to do with the add on tent manufacturing the 3’s.
stdbrouw 8y ago
> It seems difficult to imagine that hordes of industrial engineers haven't done the calculations on each of these methods countless times at all car manufacturing companies. Difficult to believe unless you've ever worked in an industrial setting.
rubinelli 8y ago
> It seems difficult to imagine that hordes of industrial engineers haven't done the calculations on each of these methods countless times at all car manufacturing companies. Yes, it's the Ford method: you hire the smartest people you can to lay out the best plan, and a bunch of interchangeable grunts to just execute. But it turns out that the person that has to do that work 40 hours a week has a much better chance to find ways to make it more efficient, and if you build a culture where that's encouraged, that's what they do. If there is "one secret trick", it's probably that an employee that feels that they own their work does a much better job than one that acts like a cog in the machine someone else designed.
bluedino 8y ago
Based on their product line I'm surprised Toyota is so 'flexible'. They seem to go the longest between model revisions and are selling cars without features that were widely used 10 years ago. They've been using the same interiror parts in some vehicles (runner) forever.
- mox1 8y ago
  And yet, they continue to basically sell out year after year. Additionally, you cannot order most Toyotas, the dealer usually doesn't even know what color or trim levels they are going to get in advance. Its the Trader Joe's model. Have super high quality (and/or well priced) goods and consumers will bend a lot on choice. In fact, studied have shown that too many choices "freeze" consumers and they just get frustrated. I'm sure a lot of consumers would take a 2nd or 3rd choice color Toyota, over ordering whatever they want from a domestic brand.
tim333 8y ago
I think the root of a lot of Toyotas performance is cultural. When asked if they were worried about VW selling more >a Toyota spokesman said that the brand was not focused on chasing volume for the sake of it. "We believe that our sales volume is just the result of our focus on making ever-better cars and providing better customer experiences." And that has mostly been true - focus on better cars and presumably better production techniques over many decades. It may seem obvious I'm not sure other companies focus like that.
bluGill 8y ago
The gain is this: it doesn't produce a car that Toyota doesn't sell. That is if Toyota sells 90 cars they make 90, if they sell 100 they make 100. If gas is cheap they can make more gas guzzlers that consumers want, if gas it cheap they switch to efficient cars. In a traditional line you make the same number of cars every day. If consumers wants something else - too bad for the line, either you stockpile cars and hope they sell before you clearance them at a loss; or you shut down the line and produce zero - too bad for the customers who do want that one. Note that this is less efficient if you correctly forecast how many cars of each type you sell. An assembly line optimized to produce a lot of one car is cheaper IF you actually sell a lot of those cars. Which way to make the trade off is a complex decision with pros and cons. As technology changes different factors become important and the best changes.

georgeek 8y ago

That's the whole concept of kaizen, or improvement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen

_pmf_ 8y ago

> There must be deeper, more subtle factors that explain why Toyota's particular combination of techniques yields such superior results. Why? That's how engineering works; small improvements aggregated over time.

nkoren 8y ago
No, that's how certain types of engineering optimisations work, but as a process is susceptible to getting stuck in local minima. This is clearly a different type of optimisation, requiring the simultaneous adoption of a number of different yet complementary techniques.
- linksnapzz 8y ago
  For anybody that cares, much of this process has its origins in Taiichi Ohno's work in the '70s. His original "Toyota Production System" book of 1978, which is still in print, is short, accessible, and enormously enlightening. Likewise, a comparative study of why the Toyota system works in comparison with other manufacturing approaches is the 2nd edition of Womack's "Machine that Changed the World". Also, other books by Shingo, Imai, Deming et al. have lots of good information.

spyckie2 8y ago

it sounds like the benefits of the line is the flexibility, not necessarily efficiency gains. I think the idea of the article is that fixed production is a business weakness in today's fast moving consumer market. This also doesn't sound like something Tesla needs yet, as this seems to be great for building different types of cars based on demand rather than maxing a single car output.

FPGAhacker 8y ago
I thought this was basically what Tesla had to do with the add on tent manufacturing the 3’s.

stdbrouw 8y ago

> It seems difficult to imagine that hordes of industrial engineers haven't done the calculations on each of these methods countless times at all car manufacturing companies. Difficult to believe unless you've ever worked in an industrial setting.

rubinelli 8y ago

> It seems difficult to imagine that hordes of industrial engineers haven't done the calculations on each of these methods countless times at all car manufacturing companies. Yes, it's the Ford method: you hire the smartest people you can to lay out the best plan, and a bunch of interchangeable grunts to just execute. But it turns out that the person that has to do that work 40 hours a week has a much better chance to find ways to make it more efficient, and if you build a culture where that's encouraged, that's what they do. If there is "one secret trick", it's probably that an employee that feels that they own their work does a much better job than one that acts like a cog in the machine someone else designed.

bluedino 8y ago

Based on their product line I'm surprised Toyota is so 'flexible'. They seem to go the longest between model revisions and are selling cars without features that were widely used 10 years ago. They've been using the same interiror parts in some vehicles (runner) forever.

mox1 8y ago
And yet, they continue to basically sell out year after year. Additionally, you cannot order most Toyotas, the dealer usually doesn't even know what color or trim levels they are going to get in advance. Its the Trader Joe's model. Have super high quality (and/or well priced) goods and consumers will bend a lot on choice. In fact, studied have shown that too many choices "freeze" consumers and they just get frustrated. I'm sure a lot of consumers would take a 2nd or 3rd choice color Toyota, over ordering whatever they want from a domestic brand.

tim333 8y ago

I think the root of a lot of Toyotas performance is cultural. When asked if they were worried about VW selling more >a Toyota spokesman said that the brand was not focused on chasing volume for the sake of it. "We believe that our sales volume is just the result of our focus on making ever-better cars and providing better customer experiences." And that has mostly been true - focus on better cars and presumably better production techniques over many decades. It may seem obvious I'm not sure other companies focus like that.

bluGill 8y ago

The gain is this: it doesn't produce a car that Toyota doesn't sell. That is if Toyota sells 90 cars they make 90, if they sell 100 they make 100. If gas is cheap they can make more gas guzzlers that consumers want, if gas it cheap they switch to efficient cars. In a traditional line you make the same number of cars every day. If consumers wants something else - too bad for the line, either you stockpile cars and hope they sell before you clearance them at a loss; or you shut down the line and produce zero - too bad for the customers who do want that one. Note that this is less efficient if you correctly forecast how many cars of each type you sell. An assembly line optimized to produce a lot of one car is cheaper IF you actually sell a lot of those cars. Which way to make the trade off is a complex decision with pros and cons. As technology changes different factors become important and the best changes.