5 ms·

I was thinking about what you call '#2' the other day, when a family member remarked that the FAA was right to keep the planes in the sky because US airline uni

I was thinking about what you call '#2' the other day, when a family member remarked that the FAA was right to keep the planes in the sky because US airline unions felt like their pilots had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. I'm not sure where they got that from, but why would it be okay if the US pilots got training immediately, while others had to wait?

crowdpleaser 8y ago
It would be extremely irregular for an aviation company to give training / instruction to exclusive clubs. The reality is that occident pilots tend to be a cut above the rest of the world. American Airline pilots tend to have military aviation experience and/or thousands of hours of experience. Pilots in less developed nations tend to have significantly less training, I heard the copilot of the lion air flight only had a few hundred hours of experience.
- cjbprime 8y ago
  But the pilot in the latest crash had been flying for Ethiopian for a decade, and Ethiopian's reputation for safety is excellent.
- kniub 8y ago
  The copilot had 5000 flights hours. Bhavye Suneja, the pilot - Suneja had logged more than 6,000 flight hours, according to Lion Air. His co-pilot, whose name was Harvino - Harvino had logged more than 5,000 flight hours, according to Lion Air, which named him alongside Suneja. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lion-air-plane-crash-victims-indonesia-2018-10?r=UK https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lion-air-plane-crash-vict...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - acqq 8y ago
    To have some idea about the possible time span, we can estimate some "typical" flight frequency and length: if the average flight is 2.5 hours there, and if the pilot flights both to the destination and back in the same day (which is reasonable to expect) 6000 hours means 1200 flights to the destination and back, and if only one such is done per day (with the times on the ground it's surely more than 8 hours) then assuming 4 of such per week and 48 working weeks per year, that gives 6.5 years for the pilot and 5.2 years for the co-pilot.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  Pilots in less developed nations tend to have significantly less training And yet at least one previous Lion Air crew had a run-in with MCAS and survived.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    And 83% of people playing russian roulette survive. Saying that some crews in some circumstances coped with the problem therefore all crews in all circumstances should be able to is disingenuous
- tapland 8y ago
  The problem is mostly regulations allowing co-pilots to join in with extremely little experience. That was not the case here.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838 https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsI... Up until five or so years ago the FAA only mandated 250 hours of flight time to obtain an airline transport pilot license. Has American aviation gotten that much safer since then?
isostatic 8y ago
> because US airline unions felt like their pilots had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. And ET pilots felt they had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. > I'm not sure where they got that from, but why would it be okay if the US pilots got training immediately, while others had to wait? Something like https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/03/13/who-says-the-boeing-737max-is-safe-every-u-s-pilot-who-flies-it-says-so/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/03/13/who-says-the... How that statement meshes with https://www.philly.com/business/boeing-max-pilots-complained-suspected-safety-flaw-20190312.html https://www.philly.com/business/boeing-max-pilots-complained... "Pilots repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities, with one captain calling the flight manual “inadequate and almost criminally insufficient” And "U.S. regulators are mandating that Boeing upgrade the plane’s software by April" is unclear. Back in 2016 it seems that the pilots union felt the MAX was a different plane: > hhttps://www.geekwire.com/2016/boeings-737-max-southwest-airlines-labor-dispute-pilots/ https://www.geekwire.com/2016/boeings-737-max-southwest-airl...

crowdpleaser 8y ago

It would be extremely irregular for an aviation company to give training / instruction to exclusive clubs. The reality is that occident pilots tend to be a cut above the rest of the world. American Airline pilots tend to have military aviation experience and/or thousands of hours of experience. Pilots in less developed nations tend to have significantly less training, I heard the copilot of the lion air flight only had a few hundred hours of experience.

cjbprime 8y ago
But the pilot in the latest crash had been flying for Ethiopian for a decade, and Ethiopian's reputation for safety is excellent.
kniub 8y ago
The copilot had 5000 flights hours. Bhavye Suneja, the pilot - Suneja had logged more than 6,000 flight hours, according to Lion Air. His co-pilot, whose name was Harvino - Harvino had logged more than 5,000 flight hours, according to Lion Air, which named him alongside Suneja. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lion-air-plane-crash-victims-indonesia-2018-10?r=UK https://www.businessinsider.com.au/lion-air-plane-crash-vict...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- acqq 8y ago
  To have some idea about the possible time span, we can estimate some "typical" flight frequency and length: if the average flight is 2.5 hours there, and if the pilot flights both to the destination and back in the same day (which is reasonable to expect) 6000 hours means 1200 flights to the destination and back, and if only one such is done per day (with the times on the ground it's surely more than 8 hours) then assuming 4 of such per week and 48 working weeks per year, that gives 6.5 years for the pilot and 5.2 years for the co-pilot.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
Pilots in less developed nations tend to have significantly less training And yet at least one previous Lion Air crew had a run-in with MCAS and survived.
- isostatic 8y ago
  And 83% of people playing russian roulette survive. Saying that some crews in some circumstances coped with the problem therefore all crews in all circumstances should be able to is disingenuous
tapland 8y ago
The problem is mostly regulations allowing co-pilots to join in with extremely little experience. That was not the case here.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=14838 https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsI... Up until five or so years ago the FAA only mandated 250 hours of flight time to obtain an airline transport pilot license. Has American aviation gotten that much safer since then?

isostatic 8y ago

> because US airline unions felt like their pilots had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. And ET pilots felt they had received adequate advice and information from Boeing. > I'm not sure where they got that from, but why would it be okay if the US pilots got training immediately, while others had to wait? Something like https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/03/13/who-says-the-boeing-737max-is-safe-every-u-s-pilot-who-flies-it-says-so/amp/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2019/03/13/who-says-the... How that statement meshes with https://www.philly.com/business/boeing-max-pilots-complained-suspected-safety-flaw-20190312.html https://www.philly.com/business/boeing-max-pilots-complained... "Pilots repeatedly voiced safety concerns about the Boeing 737 Max 8 to federal authorities, with one captain calling the flight manual “inadequate and almost criminally insufficient” And "U.S. regulators are mandating that Boeing upgrade the plane’s software by April" is unclear. Back in 2016 it seems that the pilots union felt the MAX was a different plane: > hhttps://www.geekwire.com/2016/boeings-737-max-southwest-airlines-labor-dispute-pilots/ https://www.geekwire.com/2016/boeings-737-max-southwest-airl...