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Thanks for bringing up some criticisms. This past year I was stocking up fuel for emergencies and ran into fuel stabilizers and ethanol-free fuel (there's farm

by pfranz 8y ago

Thanks for bringing up some criticisms. This past year I was stocking up fuel for emergencies and ran into fuel stabilizers and ethanol-free fuel (there's farmland nearby), but haven't done too much research into how long things should be stored, what happens, and why. Do you have any suggestions where you find more accurate more info? This West Marine webpage seems quite a bit more reputable, a lot less alarmist, but seems to similar assertions: https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Busting-Ethanol-Fuel-Myths https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Busting-Ethanol-Fuel-...

bluGill 8y ago
That page applies to boats and is seems true for boats. I might disagree that running E15 will harm fuel systems when E10 won't, but that is the only place where they are possibly wrong. It is really hard to find unbiased sources. From what I can tell (lots of sources, but I'm not sure where I read all this so you have to decide if you believe an admitted amateur in all this): gasoline is a mix of molecules. Some of them evaporate faster than others (read lower octane) - these are generally cheaper and some have more energy when burned. Some will break down into other molecules (air and/or water is a catalyst factor here) forming what looks like varnish and smells like turpentine. Gasoline is a mix of these (depending on temperature, cost and EPA rules). Water is interesting. Depending on temperature you can mix up to about 5% water in gasoline, and surprisingly in a warm engine you get more power/MPG when you do this (engines won't start as well though). This was commonly done until the mid 1980s because adding water is a cheap way for a gas station to make their fuel cheaper than the competition while still claiming good fuel. Ethanol makes things tricky. Ethanol and water mix just fine (common beer is a little ethanol and a lot of water), OR ethanol and gasoline mix well. However all three do not mix: if you mix ethanol, water and gasoline you end up with a layer of ethanol/water and a layer of gasoline. (you can mix up to .1% water with ethanol and gasoline but that is so low as to not count). Now some simple math (meaning wrong but close enough): if you mix 1% water with E10 your ethanol layer is 10% water - this is enough water that you won't be able to start your engine, though if it is already running it would run. If you had 100% ethanol that amount of water wouldn't be a problem: the engine would run fine 1% water 99% ethanol. Ethanol doesn't absorb water from the air. However when (not if) water condenses [temperature changes] in the fuel tank ethanol will absorb it. Thus in a humid environment where fuel is stored long ethanol will separate just from water in the air. This is often said the be ethanol absorbing water from the air but that isn't exactly what happens.

by pfranz 8y ago

bluGill 8y ago

That page applies to boats and is seems true for boats. I might disagree that running E15 will harm fuel systems when E10 won't, but that is the only place where they are possibly wrong. It is really hard to find unbiased sources. From what I can tell (lots of sources, but I'm not sure where I read all this so you have to decide if you believe an admitted amateur in all this): gasoline is a mix of molecules. Some of them evaporate faster than others (read lower octane) - these are generally cheaper and some have more energy when burned. Some will break down into other molecules (air and/or water is a catalyst factor here) forming what looks like varnish and smells like turpentine. Gasoline is a mix of these (depending on temperature, cost and EPA rules). Water is interesting. Depending on temperature you can mix up to about 5% water in gasoline, and surprisingly in a warm engine you get more power/MPG when you do this (engines won't start as well though). This was commonly done until the mid 1980s because adding water is a cheap way for a gas station to make their fuel cheaper than the competition while still claiming good fuel. Ethanol makes things tricky. Ethanol and water mix just fine (common beer is a little ethanol and a lot of water), OR ethanol and gasoline mix well. However all three do not mix: if you mix ethanol, water and gasoline you end up with a layer of ethanol/water and a layer of gasoline. (you can mix up to .1% water with ethanol and gasoline but that is so low as to not count). Now some simple math (meaning wrong but close enough): if you mix 1% water with E10 your ethanol layer is 10% water - this is enough water that you won't be able to start your engine, though if it is already running it would run. If you had 100% ethanol that amount of water wouldn't be a problem: the engine would run fine 1% water 99% ethanol. Ethanol doesn't absorb water from the air. However when (not if) water condenses [temperature changes] in the fuel tank ethanol will absorb it. Thus in a humid environment where fuel is stored long ethanol will separate just from water in the air. This is often said the be ethanol absorbing water from the air but that isn't exactly what happens.