5 ms·

Don't forget that this is before taxes, retirement savings, healthcare and other deductions. You can't just hand-wave away "standard of living" and "social ser

by vecinu 8y ago

Don't forget that this is before taxes, retirement savings, healthcare and other deductions. You can't just hand-wave away "standard of living" and "social services and benefits". These may be things you take for granted but a large majority of the population has to have a large emergency refund in case they get severed from their company without any notice for any reason (Compare that with job security in France or Germany). Consider you need to save a ton of money yourself in government sponsored accounts such as HSA or FSAs for future healthcare expenses that you can't possibly estimate when you're 20 years old. (Compare that with the NHS in England). Consider you need to sock away a ton of money in 401ks and IRAs so that when you're 50 with no job prospects, you don't end up on the street and can actually have a decent retirement. Nobody is paying serious pensions and hardly anyone can survive on social security. (Compare that with the savings pillars in Switzerland). Now considering all this, you still think his salary is HUGE compared to a Western European one? I highly doubt it, I have already run the numbers myself.

sometechie 8y ago
Job prospects for information workers will be far better than those in physically demanding jobs. People’s bodies give out by 50. Not completely, but enough where they can’t do physically laborious work. The broader point of the new replacing the old is generally true (your marketability will decline by age 50), but I still see many baby boomers holding onto well paying positions for the foreseeable future. I save to hedge the risk, but I’m not too worried, since I believe the risk is over-stated.
tuesdayrain 8y ago
> These may be things you take for granted but a large majority of the population has to have a large emergency refund in case they get severed from their company without any notice for any reason This seems like somewhat of an idealistic view point when over half of Americans have less than 1k in their bank account.
- tluyben2 8y ago
  Exactly: and in many countries in the EU you are still fine when that happens. Not so in the US.
- vecinu 8y ago
  Does that distract from the main point of "You have to have an emergency fund"?. Compared to the EU, one would have to fund a larger emergency fund to avoid surprises.
seppel 8y ago
European salaries are also before taxes (which are higher), retirement saving, healthcare, and other deductions. In Germany, e.g., you have to deduct from 60k EUR salary roughly the following: 13k taxes, 4k healthcare (your employer has to pay another 4k), 5.5k retirement, 1.7k social security. And you certainly want to save something extra for your retirement as well.
b_tterc_p 8y ago
> Consider you need to save a ton of money yourself in government sponsored accounts such as HSA or FSAs for future healthcare expenses that you can't possibly estimate when you're 20 years old. HSA’s are good investments, but FSAs don’t roll over I believe, so they’re actually quite terrible for 20 year olds Your analysis is a little idealistic though. I wouldn’t feel certain about social security nets 50 years out. I would take the cash any day.
falsedan 8y ago
The biggest thing I missed when working in the US was 5-6 weeks annual paid leave. 10 days off/year means people are highly incentivised to apply to/present at conferences tho
- aristophenes 8y ago
  Was that normal? I'm used to 10 company holidays plus 3-4 weeks of paid vacation.
  - falsedan 8y ago
    It’s the standard, some big companies offer a bit more
- burfog 8y ago
  In the USA, it is common to get more paid leave as you stay with a company. People who switch jobs often will only get a tiny amount, while those who stay in one place get plenty. The first year might be 5 or 10 days. After 10 or 15 years, you might get 20 to 40 days.
burfog 8y ago
The NHS will probably keep you alive if this is considered to be a cost-effective use of funds that are shared by the entire population. The older you get, the lower your priority. You might spend a long time on a waiting list, then get assigned a low-quality treatment that is cheap. If you want better, you'll have to pay out of pocket, possibly including travel to some other country.
- expertentipp 8y ago
  The problem with universal healthcare is that your case is rarely a priority. Young - what kind of problems you might have? Male - oh stop moaning and complaining already! Foreigner - locals have higher priority. Old - you don't contribute to the society anymore, etc. Unless one is specialist in the healthcare system with lots of spare time, sending appeals and warnings right and left - one falls back into expensive private healthcare services.
throwaway011010 8y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with this comment. If we are to compare US vs EU salaries, we must take into account healthcare cost, retirement, welfare, parental leave, PTO and so on. Otherwise the whole purpose of the exercise is pointless and it may embellish on side of the argument vis-a-vis the other. How do you call that sort of tactics already? Propaganda, right? The POTUS would respond "Fake News!" (although I'm not fond of him). Ignorance and complacency run amok on HN these days.

by vecinu 8y ago

sometechie 8y ago

Job prospects for information workers will be far better than those in physically demanding jobs. People’s bodies give out by 50. Not completely, but enough where they can’t do physically laborious work. The broader point of the new replacing the old is generally true (your marketability will decline by age 50), but I still see many baby boomers holding onto well paying positions for the foreseeable future. I save to hedge the risk, but I’m not too worried, since I believe the risk is over-stated.

tuesdayrain 8y ago

> These may be things you take for granted but a large majority of the population has to have a large emergency refund in case they get severed from their company without any notice for any reason This seems like somewhat of an idealistic view point when over half of Americans have less than 1k in their bank account.

tluyben2 8y ago
Exactly: and in many countries in the EU you are still fine when that happens. Not so in the US.
vecinu 8y ago
Does that distract from the main point of "You have to have an emergency fund"?. Compared to the EU, one would have to fund a larger emergency fund to avoid surprises.

seppel 8y ago

European salaries are also before taxes (which are higher), retirement saving, healthcare, and other deductions. In Germany, e.g., you have to deduct from 60k EUR salary roughly the following: 13k taxes, 4k healthcare (your employer has to pay another 4k), 5.5k retirement, 1.7k social security. And you certainly want to save something extra for your retirement as well.

b_tterc_p 8y ago

> Consider you need to save a ton of money yourself in government sponsored accounts such as HSA or FSAs for future healthcare expenses that you can't possibly estimate when you're 20 years old. HSA’s are good investments, but FSAs don’t roll over I believe, so they’re actually quite terrible for 20 year olds Your analysis is a little idealistic though. I wouldn’t feel certain about social security nets 50 years out. I would take the cash any day.

falsedan 8y ago

The biggest thing I missed when working in the US was 5-6 weeks annual paid leave. 10 days off/year means people are highly incentivised to apply to/present at conferences tho

aristophenes 8y ago
Was that normal? I'm used to 10 company holidays plus 3-4 weeks of paid vacation.
- falsedan 8y ago
  It’s the standard, some big companies offer a bit more
burfog 8y ago
In the USA, it is common to get more paid leave as you stay with a company. People who switch jobs often will only get a tiny amount, while those who stay in one place get plenty. The first year might be 5 or 10 days. After 10 or 15 years, you might get 20 to 40 days.

burfog 8y ago

The NHS will probably keep you alive if this is considered to be a cost-effective use of funds that are shared by the entire population. The older you get, the lower your priority. You might spend a long time on a waiting list, then get assigned a low-quality treatment that is cheap. If you want better, you'll have to pay out of pocket, possibly including travel to some other country.

expertentipp 8y ago
The problem with universal healthcare is that your case is rarely a priority. Young - what kind of problems you might have? Male - oh stop moaning and complaining already! Foreigner - locals have higher priority. Old - you don't contribute to the society anymore, etc. Unless one is specialist in the healthcare system with lots of spare time, sending appeals and warnings right and left - one falls back into expensive private healthcare services.

throwaway011010 8y ago

I wholeheartedly agree with this comment. If we are to compare US vs EU salaries, we must take into account healthcare cost, retirement, welfare, parental leave, PTO and so on. Otherwise the whole purpose of the exercise is pointless and it may embellish on side of the argument vis-a-vis the other. How do you call that sort of tactics already? Propaganda, right? The POTUS would respond "Fake News!" (although I'm not fond of him). Ignorance and complacency run amok on HN these days.