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India has one nuclear reactor's worth of diesel power plants (about 1000 MW). And 90 times more (90 GW worth) of all kinds of smaller diesel generators used as

by sampo 8y ago

India has one nuclear reactor's worth of diesel power plants (about 1000 MW). And 90 times more (90 GW worth) of all kinds of smaller diesel generators used as backups during power outages. If the new nuclear electricity decreases the outages in the grid, I am sure it will almost 1:1 turn to savings in burned diesel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_and_gas_industry_in_India#Electricity_generation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_and_gas_industry_in_India#...

dv_dt 8y ago
It could replace it faster and cheaper by financing distributed solar or wind and batteries.
- merpnderp 8y ago
  Sun and wind must be coupled with nat-gas, or at least that's how it works in the US. Either that or prepare for brown/blackouts.
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    LCOE estimates for at least the short duration gaps has solar+ batteries beating nat-gas peakers. This is pretty recent, in actual construction bids for IIRC < 4hr capability. Expect more encroachment onto basically mature nat-gas tech space as batteries and solar continue to get cheaper.
    - igravious 8y ago
      What about solar pv module and battery module waste? What about the environmental impact of mining and extracting the rare and not so rare elements that go into making solar pv modules and battery modules? What about the water use in the production of these modules? What about the greenhouse gas emissions in the industrial scale processes involved in producing these modules? What about the impact on wildlife and the environment through land clearance, habitat destruction, species dislocation, threats to bird species, … --- From the way people go on about solar pv and battery tech you'd swear they had zero externalities. > It could replace it faster and cheaper by financing distributed solar or wind and batteries. Faster, probably. Cheaper, probably. But at what cost to animal and human lives, and at what cost to the environment? Coal plants can be built fast and cheap too. That's why we've so many of them.
      - dv_dt 8y ago
        You recycle them because they're waste that doesn't fall into super specialized radioactive processing categories: https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-of-solar-panel-recycling https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-... Energy dept on energy lifecycle of PV pays back in < 3 years of their typical 20-30 year lifespan. (and that's a span to 80% sustained production - the panels can go longer...) I could keep answering all those questions point by point, but they're googleable and I feel there is a distinct lack of curiosity on those points...
        igravious 8y ago
        From the link you just provided: Millions upon millions of tonnes of e-waste just in panels, no mention about batteries. And the industrial processes involved? (A) Silicon based PV panels (1) Disassembly of aluminium and glass parts (2) Thermal processing at 500C! (3) Physically separating cell modules (4) Etching away silicon wafers (using acid!) (5) Melting broken wafers (at what temp?) And what % rates does that give you? 100% metal reuse, 95% glass reuse, 85% silicon reuse, 80% modules reused: all in all sounds pretty energy intensive and doesn't even result in 100% recycling (B) Thin-film based PV panels (1) Shredding the PV panels into 4-5mm pieces to remove lamination (2) Separating solid and liquid with a rotating screw (3) Removing film using acid and peroxide! (4) Removing interlayers materials with vibration (5) Rinsing the glass (using up how much water?) (6) Separating and processing metals And what % rates does that give you? 95% semiconductor material reuse, 90% glass reused: all in all sounds pretty energy intensive and doesn't even result in 100% recycling And of course you have to build the reprocessing and recycling plants which is energy intensive and generates greenhouse gas emissions because construction is a major source of greenhouse gas emission. And again, that's saying nothing about battery waste. But yeah, solar pv panels and battery modules: great solution …
        chopin 8y ago
        To be fair, you'll have to compare this to the treatment of the fuel waste and the decommissioned plant. Especially the former problem seems to be largely unsolved.
- simula67 8y ago
  Way ahead of you : https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/solar-scheme-kseb-gets-15ooo-applications/67121159 https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/s...

by sampo 8y ago

dv_dt 8y ago

It could replace it faster and cheaper by financing distributed solar or wind and batteries.

merpnderp 8y ago
Sun and wind must be coupled with nat-gas, or at least that's how it works in the US. Either that or prepare for brown/blackouts.
- dv_dt 8y ago
  LCOE estimates for at least the short duration gaps has solar+ batteries beating nat-gas peakers. This is pretty recent, in actual construction bids for IIRC < 4hr capability. Expect more encroachment onto basically mature nat-gas tech space as batteries and solar continue to get cheaper.
  - igravious 8y ago
    What about solar pv module and battery module waste? What about the environmental impact of mining and extracting the rare and not so rare elements that go into making solar pv modules and battery modules? What about the water use in the production of these modules? What about the greenhouse gas emissions in the industrial scale processes involved in producing these modules? What about the impact on wildlife and the environment through land clearance, habitat destruction, species dislocation, threats to bird species, … --- From the way people go on about solar pv and battery tech you'd swear they had zero externalities. > It could replace it faster and cheaper by financing distributed solar or wind and batteries. Faster, probably. Cheaper, probably. But at what cost to animal and human lives, and at what cost to the environment? Coal plants can be built fast and cheap too. That's why we've so many of them.
    - dv_dt 8y ago
      You recycle them because they're waste that doesn't fall into super specialized radioactive processing categories: https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-of-solar-panel-recycling https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2017/10/the-opportunities-... Energy dept on energy lifecycle of PV pays back in < 3 years of their typical 20-30 year lifespan. (and that's a span to 80% sustained production - the panels can go longer...) I could keep answering all those questions point by point, but they're googleable and I feel there is a distinct lack of curiosity on those points...
      - igravious 8y ago
        From the link you just provided: Millions upon millions of tonnes of e-waste just in panels, no mention about batteries. And the industrial processes involved? (A) Silicon based PV panels (1) Disassembly of aluminium and glass parts (2) Thermal processing at 500C! (3) Physically separating cell modules (4) Etching away silicon wafers (using acid!) (5) Melting broken wafers (at what temp?) And what % rates does that give you? 100% metal reuse, 95% glass reuse, 85% silicon reuse, 80% modules reused: all in all sounds pretty energy intensive and doesn't even result in 100% recycling (B) Thin-film based PV panels (1) Shredding the PV panels into 4-5mm pieces to remove lamination (2) Separating solid and liquid with a rotating screw (3) Removing film using acid and peroxide! (4) Removing interlayers materials with vibration (5) Rinsing the glass (using up how much water?) (6) Separating and processing metals And what % rates does that give you? 95% semiconductor material reuse, 90% glass reused: all in all sounds pretty energy intensive and doesn't even result in 100% recycling And of course you have to build the reprocessing and recycling plants which is energy intensive and generates greenhouse gas emissions because construction is a major source of greenhouse gas emission. And again, that's saying nothing about battery waste. But yeah, solar pv panels and battery modules: great solution …
        chopin 8y ago
        To be fair, you'll have to compare this to the treatment of the fuel waste and the decommissioned plant. Especially the former problem seems to be largely unsolved.
simula67 8y ago
Way ahead of you : https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/solar-scheme-kseb-gets-15ooo-applications/67121159 https://energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/renewable/s...