5 ms·

Yet, when a bakery wants to "curate" what cakes they bake, thats a civil rights infringement, isn't it?

by _red 8y ago

delinka 8y ago
It's entirely dependent on the reason behind the decision. Here are the limited designs we have: show book - No, we don't allow customization. Not to mention, there's no need, as a customer, to inform the baker the purpose of the cake. Doesn't matter if you're taking it to a wedding, or using it as a prank. They make cake, you want cake.
mintplant 8y ago
If there were an extensive history of phony-Autism-cure-peddlers kicked to death on the pavement by assailants screaming phony-Autism-cure-related slurs into the cold night air, while the responsible authorities looked the other way or even took part in the brutality... then, perhaps, these situations would be comparable.
imgabe 8y ago
That was not what cakes they bake, that was which customers they sell to. They were happy to sell wedding cakes to straight couples. If Amazon started saying "we won't sell these books to gay people" then, yeah that would be a problem.
- keepmesmall 8y ago
  There's a distinction, the cakes are both custom-made and religiously themed. Say a baker hand-makes dog-shaped cakes, among other cakes. The baker loves dogs. A client comes in and tells him he hates dogs and wants to order a cake for the purpose of ritually defiling it. Would the baker be wrong in refusing to fulfill this order?
  - imgabe 8y ago
    The difference is, "dog-hater" is not a protected class as defined by public accommodation laws, so they would not have any grounds for a lawsuit. Sexual orientation is, at least in some states. Legally, the baker would not be "wrong" in your scenario, though in my opinion they would at least be foolish. Defiling a cake does not harm a dog and once the customer pays for, it is their property to do whatever they want with. How about if your dog-hater were driving late at night, they got tired and pulled over into a motel. They're signing in for a room and the topic of dogs comes up for whatever reason. They mention that they hate dogs and the motel owner says "Get out, we don't allow no dog-haters in here". Are they right to do that? Legally, again, they could, though they couldn't on the basis of sexual orientation (in some states) or race, religion, national origin (everywhere). The Supreme Court has already sided with the baker on the basis of the cake being an artistic expression, so it's a moot point now.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- educationdata 8y ago
  No, in the cake lawsuit the owner was happy to sell the cake to the gay couple. He just refuses to make a customized cake for the wedding. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colo... "Masterpiece's owner Jack Phillips, who is a Christian, declined their cake request, informing the couple that he did not create wedding cakes for marriages of gay couples owing to his Christian religious beliefs, although the couple could purchase other baked goods in the store. "
  - imgabe 8y ago
    All wedding cakes are customized cakes. Most people don't buy an off-the-shelf generic cake for a wedding. A wedding cake is understood to be made especially for the occasion.
    - noobiemcfoob 8y ago
      "Most people don't buy" <- until that says "all people", you've shot your own point in the foot.
      - imgabe 8y ago
        Not at all. If you walk into a bakery and say "I want a wedding cake" they will immediately sit you down to discuss what type of custom cake you want. You would have to explicitly specify that you wanted a pre-made, off-the-shelf cake if that is what you were looking for. It was not even a question in the lawsuit that a pre-made cake would have been an acceptable substitute. I said "most people" because I'm sure there are people who have less formal, low-budget weddings where they grab any old cake from the grocery store. That is not what is understood when someone says "wedding cake".
favorited 8y ago
Bakeries can and do curate what cakes they bake. If they don't want to make carrot cake, or anything with fondant decorations, they are free to do so. Which part of that confuses you?
keepmesmall 8y ago
To the contrary, the supreme court justified the baker. Forced creation is as bad as forced speech.
anigbrowl 8y ago
You're equating serving a customer with buying from a publisher.

Yet, when a bakery wants to "curate" what cakes they bake, thats a civil rights infringement, isn't it?

by _red 8y ago

Yet, when a bakery wants to "curate" what cakes they bake, thats a civil rights infringement, isn't it?

It's entirely dependent on the reason behind the decision. Here are the limited designs we have: show book - No, we don't allow customization. Not to mention, there's no need, as a customer, to inform the baker the purpose of the cake. Doesn't matter if you're taking it to a wedding, or using it as a prank. They make cake, you want cake.

mintplant 8y ago

If there were an extensive history of phony-Autism-cure-peddlers kicked to death on the pavement by assailants screaming phony-Autism-cure-related slurs into the cold night air, while the responsible authorities looked the other way or even took part in the brutality... then, perhaps, these situations would be comparable.

imgabe 8y ago

That was not what cakes they bake, that was which customers they sell to. They were happy to sell wedding cakes to straight couples. If Amazon started saying "we won't sell these books to gay people" then, yeah that would be a problem.

keepmesmall 8y ago
There's a distinction, the cakes are both custom-made and religiously themed. Say a baker hand-makes dog-shaped cakes, among other cakes. The baker loves dogs. A client comes in and tells him he hates dogs and wants to order a cake for the purpose of ritually defiling it. Would the baker be wrong in refusing to fulfill this order?
- imgabe 8y ago
  The difference is, "dog-hater" is not a protected class as defined by public accommodation laws, so they would not have any grounds for a lawsuit. Sexual orientation is, at least in some states. Legally, the baker would not be "wrong" in your scenario, though in my opinion they would at least be foolish. Defiling a cake does not harm a dog and once the customer pays for, it is their property to do whatever they want with. How about if your dog-hater were driving late at night, they got tired and pulled over into a motel. They're signing in for a room and the topic of dogs comes up for whatever reason. They mention that they hate dogs and the motel owner says "Get out, we don't allow no dog-haters in here". Are they right to do that? Legally, again, they could, though they couldn't on the basis of sexual orientation (in some states) or race, religion, national origin (everywhere). The Supreme Court has already sided with the baker on the basis of the cake being an artistic expression, so it's a moot point now.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
educationdata 8y ago
No, in the cake lawsuit the owner was happy to sell the cake to the gay couple. He just refuses to make a customized cake for the wedding. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colorado_Civil_Rights_Commission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masterpiece_Cakeshop_v._Colo... "Masterpiece's owner Jack Phillips, who is a Christian, declined their cake request, informing the couple that he did not create wedding cakes for marriages of gay couples owing to his Christian religious beliefs, although the couple could purchase other baked goods in the store. "
- imgabe 8y ago
  All wedding cakes are customized cakes. Most people don't buy an off-the-shelf generic cake for a wedding. A wedding cake is understood to be made especially for the occasion.
  - noobiemcfoob 8y ago
    "Most people don't buy" <- until that says "all people", you've shot your own point in the foot.
    - imgabe 8y ago
      Not at all. If you walk into a bakery and say "I want a wedding cake" they will immediately sit you down to discuss what type of custom cake you want. You would have to explicitly specify that you wanted a pre-made, off-the-shelf cake if that is what you were looking for. It was not even a question in the lawsuit that a pre-made cake would have been an acceptable substitute. I said "most people" because I'm sure there are people who have less formal, low-budget weddings where they grab any old cake from the grocery store. That is not what is understood when someone says "wedding cake".

favorited 8y ago

Bakeries can and do curate what cakes they bake. If they don't want to make carrot cake, or anything with fondant decorations, they are free to do so. Which part of that confuses you?

keepmesmall 8y ago

To the contrary, the supreme court justified the baker. Forced creation is as bad as forced speech.

anigbrowl 8y ago

You're equating serving a customer with buying from a publisher.