7 ms·

Boeing's more general attitude of dismissing signs that there was a problem with the equipment Having worked in software for decades, I've noted a particular s

Boeing's more general attitude of dismissing signs that there was a problem with the equipment Having worked in software for decades, I've noted a particular sort of bias in myself and other developers. We tend to feel that our creations are like our children, and we are far too ready to blame the user. I've caught myself doing this. I've been caught out by QA doing this. I've caught fellow developers doing this, where I am in the position of the user. On that last count, I'm still surprised at the unrealistic levels of incompetence and/or malice ascribed to me in support of those face saving theories. Emotions are a tricky thing. Do not formulate theories in the heat of them. If you care about being truthful, be especially mindful of your incentives in those moments.

jacquesm 8y ago
That's why dogfooding is so powerful. The best way to first hand experience the shortcomings of your product is to use it. This makes me wonder if anyone at Google is using G-Suite themselves.
- usrusr 8y ago
  The effect of dogfooding is limited though: when you know all the quirks you won't when notice that you constantly work around them.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    when you know all the quirks you won't when notice that you constantly work around them. Unfortunately, we programmers are particularly good at doing this. We are extremely good at being "nice" to software. ("Mechanical sympathy")
    - nerpderp82 8y ago
      My child has bypassed the lock screen on my laptop and caused a gray-screen-of-death, just by banging on the keyboard. I saw it, I am unable to replicate it. Everything should be tested by a child before it can enter production service.
      - pcardoso 8y ago
        My kid subscribed me to Apple Music by playing with the apple tv remote...
      - seandougall 8y ago
        Human-powered fuzzing! As a parent of three kids under 6, I wholeheartedly endorse this.
      - alluro2 8y ago
        I know exactly what you mean - from toggling a mode on a mechanical keyboard I didn't know existed and spent 20min looking for how to turn it off, to managing to delete several Powerpoint slides that were not on the screen at all, solely via keyboard (so that I didn't notice it until saving/closing the file and losing them forever). It's amazing :)
      - skookumchuck 8y ago
        I recall a kids game where the game exited when the spacebar was touched. It was pretty exasperating, because the kiddies couldn't figure out how to get the game running again.
- jmkd 8y ago
  For most Googlers it's all they use...
- hopler 8y ago
  Doesn't matter if the devs know it's broken, if the managers decide it's not worth paying to fix.
- booleandilemma 8y ago
  I’ve used software that’s so bad and thought there’s no way anyone at the company that made this has ever used this.
- londons_explore 8y ago
  Nearly everyone at Google uses GSuite. Arguably, not enough people at Google use the competitors stuff. The employees are sitting there thinking they're making a great minidisc player while the rest of the world has moved on to streaming audio...
cco 8y ago
In my experience end users are very often wrong, QA departments are rarely wrong. If pilots are saying I pressed the rudder and it didn't move healthy skepticism may be needed, I'd hazard less skepticism than for an average end user as the pilots are presumably highly skilled users of the product. But if after very thorough investigations a large group of pilot reports and the NTSB are telling you something is wrong then you should assume that something is wrong and do your best to prove it otherwise. As you note emotions, and frankly legal liability, play huge roles in this realm. Worrying about legal liability might be harder to tame but in my experience it is easier to disabuse yourself of the notion that you can do no wrong.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  In my experience end users are very often wrong, QA departments are rarely wrong. This is true. However, even in the cases where I have spent considerable time analyzing the situation and have included specific information, I get the distinct impression that devs simply don't listen to what users say. I get the distinct impression that most of them simply disdain me and don't even listen to what I have to say.
- skookumchuck 8y ago
  The cases of "surging" where people claimed they were pressing hard on the brake when the car lept forward come to mind. (The most credible explanation is they put their foot on the gas instead, or are simply trying deflect blame away from themselves for the crash.)
  - pfdietz 8y ago
    That's not the most credible explanation. http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_s...
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      I don't buy it. Heck, I've even stepped on the gas instead of the brake. Besides, the brakes are much more effective than that little Toyota engine is. Try it yourself. Go full throttle and step hard on the brake. You'll stop.

jacquesm 8y ago

That's why dogfooding is so powerful. The best way to first hand experience the shortcomings of your product is to use it. This makes me wonder if anyone at Google is using G-Suite themselves.

usrusr 8y ago
The effect of dogfooding is limited though: when you know all the quirks you won't when notice that you constantly work around them.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  when you know all the quirks you won't when notice that you constantly work around them. Unfortunately, we programmers are particularly good at doing this. We are extremely good at being "nice" to software. ("Mechanical sympathy")
  - nerpderp82 8y ago
    My child has bypassed the lock screen on my laptop and caused a gray-screen-of-death, just by banging on the keyboard. I saw it, I am unable to replicate it. Everything should be tested by a child before it can enter production service.
    - pcardoso 8y ago
      My kid subscribed me to Apple Music by playing with the apple tv remote...
    - seandougall 8y ago
      Human-powered fuzzing! As a parent of three kids under 6, I wholeheartedly endorse this.
    - alluro2 8y ago
      I know exactly what you mean - from toggling a mode on a mechanical keyboard I didn't know existed and spent 20min looking for how to turn it off, to managing to delete several Powerpoint slides that were not on the screen at all, solely via keyboard (so that I didn't notice it until saving/closing the file and losing them forever). It's amazing :)
    - skookumchuck 8y ago
      I recall a kids game where the game exited when the spacebar was touched. It was pretty exasperating, because the kiddies couldn't figure out how to get the game running again.
jmkd 8y ago
For most Googlers it's all they use...
hopler 8y ago
Doesn't matter if the devs know it's broken, if the managers decide it's not worth paying to fix.
booleandilemma 8y ago
I’ve used software that’s so bad and thought there’s no way anyone at the company that made this has ever used this.
londons_explore 8y ago
Nearly everyone at Google uses GSuite. Arguably, not enough people at Google use the competitors stuff. The employees are sitting there thinking they're making a great minidisc player while the rest of the world has moved on to streaming audio...

cco 8y ago

In my experience end users are very often wrong, QA departments are rarely wrong. If pilots are saying I pressed the rudder and it didn't move healthy skepticism may be needed, I'd hazard less skepticism than for an average end user as the pilots are presumably highly skilled users of the product. But if after very thorough investigations a large group of pilot reports and the NTSB are telling you something is wrong then you should assume that something is wrong and do your best to prove it otherwise. As you note emotions, and frankly legal liability, play huge roles in this realm. Worrying about legal liability might be harder to tame but in my experience it is easier to disabuse yourself of the notion that you can do no wrong.

stcredzero 8y ago
In my experience end users are very often wrong, QA departments are rarely wrong. This is true. However, even in the cases where I have spent considerable time analyzing the situation and have included specific information, I get the distinct impression that devs simply don't listen to what users say. I get the distinct impression that most of them simply disdain me and don't even listen to what I have to say.
skookumchuck 8y ago
The cases of "surging" where people claimed they were pressing hard on the brake when the car lept forward come to mind. (The most credible explanation is they put their foot on the gas instead, or are simply trying deflect blame away from themselves for the crash.)
- pfdietz 8y ago
  That's not the most credible explanation. http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_s...
  - skookumchuck 8y ago
    I don't buy it. Heck, I've even stepped on the gas instead of the brake. Besides, the brakes are much more effective than that little Toyota engine is. Try it yourself. Go full throttle and step hard on the brake. You'll stop.