4 ms·

What I said (specifically about iOS) is true and has been so since 2015 (or earlier). See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backup

What I said (specifically about iOS) is true and has been so since 2015 (or earlier). See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backups explicitly being denied on iOS. This has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with the Signal team not willing to make it user friendly (for this case). [1]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/wiki/FAQ https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/wiki/FAQ [2]: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/905 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/905

tivert 8y ago
> See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backups explicitly being denied on iOS. They apparently have an open issue for this (though it looks like it's locked to prevent people from endlessly complaining in their bug tracker). https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/2542 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/2542 It also sounds like they have a branch where they're working on this feature: https://whispersystems.discoursehosting.net/t/ios-backup-keeping-message-history-when-switching-phones/1736/35 https://whispersystems.discoursehosting.net/t/ios-backup-kee... > This has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with the Signal team not willing to make it user friendly (for this case). I'd be interested to know the precise reason they have for not implementing this. You seem to have a pretty negative opinion of Signal, but I doubt they've avoided implementing backups on iOS just because they're "not willing to make it user friendly" (which is really uncharitable take, btw). Perhaps there's some nuance to iOS that makes backups far more difficult to implement than on Android while providing the same security guarantees.
- newscracker 8y ago
  The reason given is “security”, or to copy paste from the link I have given: “iTunes backups are disabled to prevent plaintext leakage to iCloud or insecure systems.” I have a negative opinion of Signal because they have not dealt with this for years and have been stubborn on that point. Please read the comments on the link I have given and also look at issues they have closed on the same topic. Their responses on the issue tracker don’t look user friendly. So I go with what I’ve seen (which is available for you to examine and make your own inferences too). For a very long time, I’ve wanted to recommend Signal to others (I still use it, but not for anything that I’d want to save for longer). But this particular issue, introduced and imposed by the Signal team, is a deal breaker. Which average user would want to rejoin all groups or lose all chat history because they bought a new iPhone? If this self-imposed issue is not an example of being user unfriendly, then what is?
  - tivert 8y ago
    > I have a negative opinion of Signal because they have not dealt with this for years and have been stubborn on that point. Why? It's their time and I doubt you're their boss. > But this particular issue, introduced and imposed by the Signal team, is a deal breaker. It seems like you just fundamentally disagree with their priorities, which is kind of a poor reason for having a negative opinion of them. It seems like they want to create the maximally secure yet reasonably usable chat app, and you want a maximally convenient yet reasonably secure chat app. IMHO, Signal's priorities are far more unique and innovative, and that's why they have my support. Literally every other app out there decides to make the opposite trade offs.
    - newscracker 8y ago
      I’m not their boss, but who says I can’t criticize it if it doesn’t meet my and others’ needs? If you observe all the discussions here on HN, you’d see that most of the criticisms and disagreements that people have with someone or some company relates to priorities not matching. Signal is not getting some special mistreatment here. In my other comments I have mentioned (that I have been) focusing on selling Signal to the average user. That doesn’t work well because of such issues (I have also listed other issues with Signal in some other comments here). If Signal wants to become more popular, then it should also look at what average users need right now (the deal breakers) when prioritizing requirements and features. As I said in another comment, Signal seems focused on investigative journalists, dissidents and activists. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it reflects poorly on people who comment on HN recommending that everybody should use Signal.
      - ardy42 8y ago
        > I’m not their boss, but who says I can’t criticize it if it doesn’t meet my and others’ needs? Yeah, because doing that is kinda toxic. It's the kind of behavior that makes open-source project maintainers burn out and quit their former labor-of-love, because they're sick being dragged down by all of the negativity from the internet peanut gallery. This is especially true since it appears they may actually be addressing your iOS backup concerns, just not with the urgency you demand. > As I said in another comment, Signal seems focused on investigative journalists, dissidents and activists. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it reflects poorly on people who comment on HN recommending that everybody should use Signal. No, it doesn't reflect poorly on them at all.

tivert 8y ago

> See [1] and [2] that I linked in another comment here and check on backups explicitly being denied on iOS. They apparently have an open issue for this (though it looks like it's locked to prevent people from endlessly complaining in their bug tracker). https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/2542 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-iOS/issues/2542 It also sounds like they have a branch where they're working on this feature: https://whispersystems.discoursehosting.net/t/ios-backup-keeping-message-history-when-switching-phones/1736/35 https://whispersystems.discoursehosting.net/t/ios-backup-kee... > This has nothing to do with Apple, and everything to do with the Signal team not willing to make it user friendly (for this case). I'd be interested to know the precise reason they have for not implementing this. You seem to have a pretty negative opinion of Signal, but I doubt they've avoided implementing backups on iOS just because they're "not willing to make it user friendly" (which is really uncharitable take, btw). Perhaps there's some nuance to iOS that makes backups far more difficult to implement than on Android while providing the same security guarantees.

newscracker 8y ago
The reason given is “security”, or to copy paste from the link I have given: “iTunes backups are disabled to prevent plaintext leakage to iCloud or insecure systems.” I have a negative opinion of Signal because they have not dealt with this for years and have been stubborn on that point. Please read the comments on the link I have given and also look at issues they have closed on the same topic. Their responses on the issue tracker don’t look user friendly. So I go with what I’ve seen (which is available for you to examine and make your own inferences too). For a very long time, I’ve wanted to recommend Signal to others (I still use it, but not for anything that I’d want to save for longer). But this particular issue, introduced and imposed by the Signal team, is a deal breaker. Which average user would want to rejoin all groups or lose all chat history because they bought a new iPhone? If this self-imposed issue is not an example of being user unfriendly, then what is?
- tivert 8y ago
  > I have a negative opinion of Signal because they have not dealt with this for years and have been stubborn on that point. Why? It's their time and I doubt you're their boss. > But this particular issue, introduced and imposed by the Signal team, is a deal breaker. It seems like you just fundamentally disagree with their priorities, which is kind of a poor reason for having a negative opinion of them. It seems like they want to create the maximally secure yet reasonably usable chat app, and you want a maximally convenient yet reasonably secure chat app. IMHO, Signal's priorities are far more unique and innovative, and that's why they have my support. Literally every other app out there decides to make the opposite trade offs.
  - newscracker 8y ago
    I’m not their boss, but who says I can’t criticize it if it doesn’t meet my and others’ needs? If you observe all the discussions here on HN, you’d see that most of the criticisms and disagreements that people have with someone or some company relates to priorities not matching. Signal is not getting some special mistreatment here. In my other comments I have mentioned (that I have been) focusing on selling Signal to the average user. That doesn’t work well because of such issues (I have also listed other issues with Signal in some other comments here). If Signal wants to become more popular, then it should also look at what average users need right now (the deal breakers) when prioritizing requirements and features. As I said in another comment, Signal seems focused on investigative journalists, dissidents and activists. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it reflects poorly on people who comment on HN recommending that everybody should use Signal.
    - ardy42 8y ago
      > I’m not their boss, but who says I can’t criticize it if it doesn’t meet my and others’ needs? Yeah, because doing that is kinda toxic. It's the kind of behavior that makes open-source project maintainers burn out and quit their former labor-of-love, because they're sick being dragged down by all of the negativity from the internet peanut gallery. This is especially true since it appears they may actually be addressing your iOS backup concerns, just not with the urgency you demand. > As I said in another comment, Signal seems focused on investigative journalists, dissidents and activists. Nothing wrong with that at all, but it reflects poorly on people who comment on HN recommending that everybody should use Signal. No, it doesn't reflect poorly on them at all.