4 ms·

Better to just let people get away with whatever they want, right? I mean, as long as the crime made a lot of money, it can't really be a crime, surely?

hackinthebochs 8y ago
It's better to be rational about creating the right incentives to prevent socially damaging behavior rather than stoking moral indignation disconnected from any semblance of benefit to society. How the left became the torch-bearers for unreflective moral indignation and retributivism is beyond me.
- gnud 8y ago
  I think it's not only moral indignation. It's a feeling that fines are not working. Since fines are not working, maybe prison would. If you make the fine large enough to actually matter, it would probably affect people working at the company who had nothing to do with the illegal activity. So maybe you should figure out who said 'OK' to the stuff, and who implemented it, and then put them in prison. Maybe then other companies won't do similar things. I don't know if it would work, but the sentiment doesn't necessarily come from moral indignation or "retributivism".
  - hackinthebochs 8y ago
    There's plenty of glee in this thread at the prospect of MZ facing jail time. That's the retributivism I'm referring to. As far as fines being incentives, if the fine is large enough it will work. Make it so shareholders feel the pain and the board will hold the executives accountable. Then you'll get the necessary feedback to curb these actions.
- AlexandrB 8y ago
  > It's better to be rational about creating the right incentives to prevent socially damaging behavior rather than stoking moral indignation disconnected from any semblance of benefit to society. I hope you apply the same rubric to shoplifting, drug posession, and the dozens of other non-violent crimes that get people put in jail regularly. Otherwise this is just a justification for keeping power unaccountable.
  - hackinthebochs 8y ago
    Absolutely. I think free will is a terrible concept that only serves to justify our retributive tendencies. Our entire approach to criminal justice needs an overhaul.
- zaccus 8y ago
  >the right incentives Like, say, not going to prison? You know, the main incentive used for regular people? Just spitballing here.

hackinthebochs 8y ago

It's better to be rational about creating the right incentives to prevent socially damaging behavior rather than stoking moral indignation disconnected from any semblance of benefit to society. How the left became the torch-bearers for unreflective moral indignation and retributivism is beyond me.

gnud 8y ago
I think it's not only moral indignation. It's a feeling that fines are not working. Since fines are not working, maybe prison would. If you make the fine large enough to actually matter, it would probably affect people working at the company who had nothing to do with the illegal activity. So maybe you should figure out who said 'OK' to the stuff, and who implemented it, and then put them in prison. Maybe then other companies won't do similar things. I don't know if it would work, but the sentiment doesn't necessarily come from moral indignation or "retributivism".
- hackinthebochs 8y ago
  There's plenty of glee in this thread at the prospect of MZ facing jail time. That's the retributivism I'm referring to. As far as fines being incentives, if the fine is large enough it will work. Make it so shareholders feel the pain and the board will hold the executives accountable. Then you'll get the necessary feedback to curb these actions.
AlexandrB 8y ago
> It's better to be rational about creating the right incentives to prevent socially damaging behavior rather than stoking moral indignation disconnected from any semblance of benefit to society. I hope you apply the same rubric to shoplifting, drug posession, and the dozens of other non-violent crimes that get people put in jail regularly. Otherwise this is just a justification for keeping power unaccountable.
- hackinthebochs 8y ago
  Absolutely. I think free will is a terrible concept that only serves to justify our retributive tendencies. Our entire approach to criminal justice needs an overhaul.
zaccus 8y ago
>the right incentives Like, say, not going to prison? You know, the main incentive used for regular people? Just spitballing here.