5 ms·

Retraining is literally the #learntocode meme.

haukilup 8y ago
That seems like a gross oversimplification. Retraining could fit as a component of a much larger plan to tackle the issues facing the job market and employability of people in these fields. Or maybe it can't. Either way, oversimplifying doesn't further the discussion. It doesn't have to be from coal miner to software engineer, or some kind of massive transformation. Skills training and education for adults is more than that, IMO.
Grue3 8y ago
It's not a meme, it's a good advice. There is no person who will regret learning to code. Even if they end up doing something else, knowing how to code would definitely come in handy for something.
- everdev 8y ago
  I think the point of contention is that not everyone is well suited for it. Certain people are strong creatively but not analytically. If you love socializing and want to work with people or love being outdoors and working with your hands or tools there's no reason to learn how to code. It's like saying no one will regret learning to farm or hunt. They're essential should for some of us but we become incredibly inefficient as a society if we all try to learn all of the important skills.
- thanatropism 8y ago
  My academic background and work experience is 95% outside the software field but I've always liked the idea of programming. Since a little kid with an already anachronic ZX Spectrum. I would write programs by hand in a notebook waiting for it to arrive. When the time came that my profession sort of blended in with data science (or rather that data science became a part of it and we'd rather keep the domain experts), I had/am having a great time. So I understand the tunnel vision. The thing is that people have different talents and inclinations. Despite the outstanding role of economic necessity, liking or even being proud of something about one's work life is a psychological necessity that has to be much more common than enjoying code. I see construction workers on top of tall buildings to be, looking into the sky -- they must like this feeling, or the endorphins of hard physical labor, or the fact that something so tangible and durable is coming out of their muscle aches. Or something. There are easier ways to make a lower-class wage than work on top of buildings. I don't like dealing with new people a lot, so I would be miserable working the cashier in a 24/7 store. But there has to be some psychological return to this work. Despite people resenting it and sort of being stuck for economic reasons. Would these people have the same sense of accomplishment and belonging-in-the-world as middling coders in the typical death-march situations coders experience in real life?
- lawnchair_larry 8y ago
  It’s idiotic advice. It’s a meme to troll with. Nobody thinks that a 50 year old life long trucker is going to pick up programming. If they do think that, they shouldn’t be allowed to make any decisions for society. Hell, they probably shouldn’t even be allowed to vote.
shanemhansen 8y ago
Or maybe the new #learntoread meme?
anth_anm 8y ago
and UBI is an excuse to write off the bottom half the population. All 3 are popular with the HN crowd. Not surprising.
- krapp 8y ago
  The argument for UBI is that society is going to write off the bottom half of the population anyway, so something is better than nothing.
  - anth_anm 8y ago
    The counterargument is we could just not write them off.
    - beat 8y ago
      And how do you propose we do that?
    - krapp 8y ago
      We will, though. Globalization and automation aren't going to stop, and we're going to end up with an entire class of people rendered surplus to requirements whose labor value in the marketplace will be zero or well below subsistence levels. Trump's populist promises to keep the coal mines open and auto factories rolling and dial the American economy back to the 1950s won't work, the world has moved on. Reeducation and retraining won't work at scale, especially not in the US where education means an unpayable private debt in many cases. So if not UBI, then what?
- chillacy 8y ago
  First it'll be the bottom half, then the bottom two-thirds, then the bottom 90%. Automation isn't going to stop at manufacturing, truckers, and retail workers: it'll hit radiologists, accountants, lawyers, etc eventually.

That seems like a gross oversimplification. Retraining could fit as a component of a much larger plan to tackle the issues facing the job market and employability of people in these fields. Or maybe it can't. Either way, oversimplifying doesn't further the discussion. It doesn't have to be from coal miner to software engineer, or some kind of massive transformation. Skills training and education for adults is more than that, IMO.

Grue3 8y ago

It's not a meme, it's a good advice. There is no person who will regret learning to code. Even if they end up doing something else, knowing how to code would definitely come in handy for something.

everdev 8y ago
I think the point of contention is that not everyone is well suited for it. Certain people are strong creatively but not analytically. If you love socializing and want to work with people or love being outdoors and working with your hands or tools there's no reason to learn how to code. It's like saying no one will regret learning to farm or hunt. They're essential should for some of us but we become incredibly inefficient as a society if we all try to learn all of the important skills.
thanatropism 8y ago
My academic background and work experience is 95% outside the software field but I've always liked the idea of programming. Since a little kid with an already anachronic ZX Spectrum. I would write programs by hand in a notebook waiting for it to arrive. When the time came that my profession sort of blended in with data science (or rather that data science became a part of it and we'd rather keep the domain experts), I had/am having a great time. So I understand the tunnel vision. The thing is that people have different talents and inclinations. Despite the outstanding role of economic necessity, liking or even being proud of something about one's work life is a psychological necessity that has to be much more common than enjoying code. I see construction workers on top of tall buildings to be, looking into the sky -- they must like this feeling, or the endorphins of hard physical labor, or the fact that something so tangible and durable is coming out of their muscle aches. Or something. There are easier ways to make a lower-class wage than work on top of buildings. I don't like dealing with new people a lot, so I would be miserable working the cashier in a 24/7 store. But there has to be some psychological return to this work. Despite people resenting it and sort of being stuck for economic reasons. Would these people have the same sense of accomplishment and belonging-in-the-world as middling coders in the typical death-march situations coders experience in real life?
lawnchair_larry 8y ago
It’s idiotic advice. It’s a meme to troll with. Nobody thinks that a 50 year old life long trucker is going to pick up programming. If they do think that, they shouldn’t be allowed to make any decisions for society. Hell, they probably shouldn’t even be allowed to vote.

shanemhansen 8y ago

Or maybe the new #learntoread meme?

anth_anm 8y ago

and UBI is an excuse to write off the bottom half the population. All 3 are popular with the HN crowd. Not surprising.

krapp 8y ago
The argument for UBI is that society is going to write off the bottom half of the population anyway, so something is better than nothing.
- anth_anm 8y ago
  The counterargument is we could just not write them off.
  - beat 8y ago
    And how do you propose we do that?
  - krapp 8y ago
    We will, though. Globalization and automation aren't going to stop, and we're going to end up with an entire class of people rendered surplus to requirements whose labor value in the marketplace will be zero or well below subsistence levels. Trump's populist promises to keep the coal mines open and auto factories rolling and dial the American economy back to the 1950s won't work, the world has moved on. Reeducation and retraining won't work at scale, especially not in the US where education means an unpayable private debt in many cases. So if not UBI, then what?
chillacy 8y ago
First it'll be the bottom half, then the bottom two-thirds, then the bottom 90%. Automation isn't going to stop at manufacturing, truckers, and retail workers: it'll hit radiologists, accountants, lawyers, etc eventually.