4 ms·

wprq: So which phone does a concerned person buy?

gibspaulding 8y ago
An old android phone that supports Lineage OS with no G-Apps. You've still got a closed baseband and random hardware blobs, but I'd say it is the best option at the moment.
dwighttk 8y ago
iOS device with iOS 11 or newer (current devices are on iOS 12)... or don't log into Facebook on an older device. This isn't Apple cynically hiding selling your data behind your back. Back when they had Facebook integrated it was so that you could share stuff easier with your friends. Yes it was a security risk because of how Facebook used the information. That is part of the reason Apple removed the integration.
- rhn_mk1 8y ago
  > This isn't Apple cynically hiding selling your data behind your back. It's just both a grave security mistake and a breach of trust to treat Facebook preferentially without letting the user know. To me, it's indistinguishable from cynically handing over the user to Facebook.
  - dwighttk 8y ago
    the user who logged into Facebook... It's not good. It stopped in 2017 when they removed Facebook integration.
  - FussyZeus 8y ago
    > It's just both a grave security mistake and a breach of trust to treat Facebook preferentially without letting the user know. The user knew. The user asked for it. People were howling for Facebook integrations. This was back before Facebook's privacy transgressions were as widely known. It's also worth noting that the integration was designed to allow posting to Facebook from iOS. Facebook then took advantage of that opening to get additional data from the device. That's why Apple slammed the door shut.
Datenstrom 8y ago
As far as I know Replicant[1] is the only completely open option (besides the baseband OS). I would love to run it myself if it supported more phones, although I have not personally tried it. I keep an eye on the project though. Other projects like Copperhead OS[2] have all mysteriously imploded. [1]: https://replicant.us/ https://replicant.us/ [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536
- neilv 8y ago
  I've run Replicant (as an exercise, not for serious privacy/security requirements), but I don't really recommend Replicant. Replicant drawbacks include: * Starved for developer time (e.g., low device support, slow/no updates for known exploits, question of how many eyeballs seeing changes, no current semi-secure way to browse Web). * Only kinda barely minimally almost works. * The supported hardware devices are not only few and old, but have fundamental security weaknesses in hardware. * Android is a huge code base, and, going forward, to some degree you're at the mercy of whatever the developer decides to do with it. * You're trying to adopt a platform that was, to some extent, designed around surveillance of the user. You can disable a lot of snooping, but you would design it very differently if privacy&security were goals. Librem5 is sorta an option, if you can afford it, though they still use closed hardware black boxes. (Also, even when two black boxes are "isolated", and you think you control the communication channel, you don't necessarily.) It's too bad that FirefoxOS didn't work out. The Gecko layer and up could've been moved to a purer Linux stack (ditching the Android build tree monstrosity), and to more trustworthy hardware. Personally, I'm hoping we go back to the original Linux emphasis on mainline kernel, maintainable open drivers, blob-free. The closest effort I've seen is PostmarketOS [1], but it's still in an early state, and it could also be a little more strict about compromise slippery slopes (e.g., the wiki can be misleading about what works on a device, since it might be talking about a non-mainline kernel, and perhaps they should ban kludges to run closed Android drivers). I wish I had more time to work on pmOS at the moment (but am job-hunting, and my new open source work has to be much more near-term employable than this). [1] https://www.postmarketos.org/ https://www.postmarketos.org/
ionised 8y ago
You don't. Though I suppose a dumb phone would do, or maybe a LineageOS/MicroG-based smartphone.
johnchristopher 8y ago
wprq, tfdim ?

An old android phone that supports Lineage OS with no G-Apps. You've still got a closed baseband and random hardware blobs, but I'd say it is the best option at the moment.

dwighttk 8y ago

iOS device with iOS 11 or newer (current devices are on iOS 12)... or don't log into Facebook on an older device. This isn't Apple cynically hiding selling your data behind your back. Back when they had Facebook integrated it was so that you could share stuff easier with your friends. Yes it was a security risk because of how Facebook used the information. That is part of the reason Apple removed the integration.

rhn_mk1 8y ago
> This isn't Apple cynically hiding selling your data behind your back. It's just both a grave security mistake and a breach of trust to treat Facebook preferentially without letting the user know. To me, it's indistinguishable from cynically handing over the user to Facebook.
- dwighttk 8y ago
  the user who logged into Facebook... It's not good. It stopped in 2017 when they removed Facebook integration.
- FussyZeus 8y ago
  > It's just both a grave security mistake and a breach of trust to treat Facebook preferentially without letting the user know. The user knew. The user asked for it. People were howling for Facebook integrations. This was back before Facebook's privacy transgressions were as widely known. It's also worth noting that the integration was designed to allow posting to Facebook from iOS. Facebook then took advantage of that opening to get additional data from the device. That's why Apple slammed the door shut.

Datenstrom 8y ago

As far as I know Replicant[1] is the only completely open option (besides the baseband OS). I would love to run it myself if it supported more phones, although I have not personally tried it. I keep an eye on the project though. Other projects like Copperhead OS[2] have all mysteriously imploded. [1]: https://replicant.us/ https://replicant.us/ [2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17289536

neilv 8y ago
I've run Replicant (as an exercise, not for serious privacy/security requirements), but I don't really recommend Replicant. Replicant drawbacks include: * Starved for developer time (e.g., low device support, slow/no updates for known exploits, question of how many eyeballs seeing changes, no current semi-secure way to browse Web). * Only kinda barely minimally almost works. * The supported hardware devices are not only few and old, but have fundamental security weaknesses in hardware. * Android is a huge code base, and, going forward, to some degree you're at the mercy of whatever the developer decides to do with it. * You're trying to adopt a platform that was, to some extent, designed around surveillance of the user. You can disable a lot of snooping, but you would design it very differently if privacy&security were goals. Librem5 is sorta an option, if you can afford it, though they still use closed hardware black boxes. (Also, even when two black boxes are "isolated", and you think you control the communication channel, you don't necessarily.) It's too bad that FirefoxOS didn't work out. The Gecko layer and up could've been moved to a purer Linux stack (ditching the Android build tree monstrosity), and to more trustworthy hardware. Personally, I'm hoping we go back to the original Linux emphasis on mainline kernel, maintainable open drivers, blob-free. The closest effort I've seen is PostmarketOS [1], but it's still in an early state, and it could also be a little more strict about compromise slippery slopes (e.g., the wiki can be misleading about what works on a device, since it might be talking about a non-mainline kernel, and perhaps they should ban kludges to run closed Android drivers). I wish I had more time to work on pmOS at the moment (but am job-hunting, and my new open source work has to be much more near-term employable than this). [1] https://www.postmarketos.org/ https://www.postmarketos.org/

ionised 8y ago

You don't. Though I suppose a dumb phone would do, or maybe a LineageOS/MicroG-based smartphone.

johnchristopher 8y ago

wprq, tfdim ?