6 ms·

FWIW, I've been using syncthing [0] for some years now [1] and am very pleased. Even though my data is unavailable on the cloud from any untrusted computer (lik

FWIW, I've been using syncthing [0] for some years now [1] and am very pleased. Even though my data is unavailable on the cloud from any untrusted computer (like e.g. my corporate laptop), it's synced on my "fleet". I'm not sure that PrivateStorage actually adds anything to the equation? EDIT> The Tahoe LAFS [2] model is more that you spread your data over multiple providers. NAS at home, several VPS providers, or what have you. It feels like RAID in the network, and it allows very precise setting of redundancy policies. So syncthing actually only runs on trusted machines, whereas PrivateStorage will be able to run on both trusted (tightly managed) and untrusted machines (like a VPS in the USA). [0] https://syncthing.net https://syncthing.net [1] https://try.popho.be/byeunison.html https://try.popho.be/byeunison.html [2] https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs https://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs

zorked 8y ago
A big thing is that Tahoe LAFS can be run on untrusted computers.
- moviuro 8y ago
  So you share your data on untrusted machines that you bet will live long enough to hold what you want to keep. Sounds risky. Do storage providers have an incentive to provide the service reliably à la filecoin? [0] [0] https://filecoin.io/ https://filecoin.io/
  - deadbunny 8y ago
    Untrusted doesn't mean randomly selected.
  - zorked 8y ago
    The Tahoe LAFS model is more that you spread your data over multiple providers. NAS at home, several VPS providers, or what have you. It feels like RAID in the network, and it allows very precise setting of redundancy policies.
  - rakoo 8y ago
    I trust S3, B2 Google's blobstore more than some rando's machine who runs filecoin. Tahoe-LAFS gives you the assurance that the actual backend storage only sees encrypted data. The big clouds have this advantage that they are probably more reliable, faster, have lower latency, better uptime, and lower price.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    > Do storage providers have an incentive to provide the service reliably à la filecoin? Yes, via a currency called Dollars.
    - dang 8y ago
      "Don't be snarky." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - meejah 8y ago
    In the PrivateStorage case the machines aren't "trusted" but they are all run by the service you're paying for -- so the incentive to keep them running properly is indeed there. For other kinds of Tahoe deployments, no there's nothing built-in to incentivize storage-server operators. That part is up to whomever is organizing and running the Grid (what Tahoe calls a group of storage-servers). For example, friends could agree to host storage-servers for each other and create redundancy + trust that way. The difference between Tahoe and things like Storj / FileCoin is that those services intend to be "a single, global service" whereas Tahoe is software that can be deployed in several different ways -- one of which is a professionally managed Grid such as PrivateStorage. If you are interested in these topics I'd encourage you to join #tahoe-lafs on Freenode or one of the Tahoe development meetings. These are definitely things I've seen discussed but I think Tahoe-LAFS is far more likely to introduce a concept of "federated Grids" rather than "a single global Tahoe service".
  - stdcli 8y ago
    https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html. While we are rolling out AMIs that auto launch gaia hubs, and hosting some to make it user firendly for people with non sys admin skills, you can docker-compose up here: https://github.com/blockstack/gaia/blob/master/hub/README.md https://github.com/blockstack/gaia/blob/master/hub/README.md on a machine you own or trust. We are working to make doing even this as user friendly as possible.
- iagovar 8y ago
  Is Tahoe LAFS a viable solution for people without sysadmin skills?
  - meejah 8y ago
    Tahoe-LAFS by itself is probably not (you do have to configure and keep some Python-based daemon software running), but PrivateStorage is a managed service.
StavrosK 8y ago
Given how rock-solid Syncthing has been, I wonder how hard it would be to bolt encryption onto it so anything that some specific nodes receive is always encrypted.
- jammygit 8y ago
  Apparently syncthing uses fairly strong crypto in transit, or at least that's what I read recently
  - moviuro 8y ago
    That's not what StavrosK is asking for. Some syncthing nodes could host only the encrypted data, without the keys to decrypt them. This adds the benefit of having some nodes host the data, without being able to access it. Think: VPS, etc. that have very good availability track record, but some doubts about whether your hosting company can spy/might be coerced into spying.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      Exactly. If I could be sure that the VPS couldn't read or mess with my files without me knowing, I'd definitely add a SyncThing node on my VPS and have increased availability along with security without any hassle.
      - vanburen 8y ago
        I think it has been considered: https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/109 https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/109 https://www.bountysource.com/issues/1474343-support-for-file-encryption-e-g-non-trusted-servers https://www.bountysource.com/issues/1474343-support-for-file... https://forum.syncthing.net/t/encryption-for-remote-syncthing-device/2820 https://forum.syncthing.net/t/encryption-for-remote-syncthin... Unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much movement towards making it a feature.
- andreareina 8y ago
  It wouldn't be only specific nodes, but would something like encfs[1] work? [1] https://github.com/vgough/encfs https://github.com/vgough/encfs
scott00 8y ago
How much data do you sync? I'm syncing 60 GB with NextCloud and it annoys me frequently: every time I log in it spends 5 minutes scanning my data, pegging at least one core of CPU and using up a lot of my I/O capacity. And of course at a pretty annoying time, since I almost always want to be actually using my machine during the first 5 minutes after logging in. And I'd really like to be syncing more data. Anyway, wondering if syncthing does better in this respect.
- Chilinot 8y ago
  Im using Syncthing as well, and in my Syncthing dir on my laptop there is currently 52 GB of data. That includes a synchting-share for my automatic backups and my "dropbox" replacement (a simple directory for syncing between phone, and computers). It works great. I haven't had any issues with it. The current release of syncthing is very stable. Earlier versios were a bit error prone. But they seem to have fleshed out most, if not all bugs i encountered in earlier versions.
- arctux 8y ago
  I'm syncing around 90 GB between my server, laptop, and LineageOS Pixel phone. I use it to sync my documents, music, passwords, and archived pictures. I also use it to sync photos taken by my phone camera as they are taken. Setup: * Camera: 1.8 GB, 243 files * Documents: 10.8 GB, 4604 files * Music: 61.5 GB, 25077 files * Passwords: 660 KB, 726 files * Pictures: 16.5 GB, 6450 files The passwords are managed by 'pass' [0], which is viewable on my phone using Password Store [1]. Cold-launching Syncthing takes ~10 seconds on my phone, but it does it automatically on boot and thereafter runs in the background. Battery impact seems to be negligible. [0]: https://www.passwordstore.org/ https://www.passwordstore.org/ [1]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.zeapo.pwdstore/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.zeapo.pwdstore/ and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zeapo.pwdstore https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zeapo.pwds...
- NickHoff 8y ago
  I have about 10 GB in multiple folders synced in various combinations between: - ec2 instance (light burstable, always on) - desktop (debian) - laptop (manjaro) - desktop (windows) - phone (one-way sync to get photos off the phone) - tablet (kindle fire) It has been great. Solid and trustworthy. It picks up changes made before the service was running, handles deletes and renames just fine, and updates are simple. The web-based UI is good. I like that calmh and the team are not adding lots of features. There are lots of things they could add to make syncthing "better", but they want to make sure syncthing does one thing well. One nit - the UI shows the "latest change" for each folder. The common understanding of this phrase would be "the file in that folder that most recently changed" but what syncthing actually shows here is "the most recent change that syncthing made to this folder". That means that if I change a file on the current device and syncthing picks it up and replicates it out to the other devices, that change will not be shown as the "latest change". If some other device changes the file and syncthing replicates that change back to the current device, then it will be shown as the "latest change". This is confusing. "latest change" should just show the file that most recently changed for any reason.
rakoo 8y ago
You can configure Tahoe-LAFS to store data wherever you want but I guess PrivateStorage will have its own settings and you won't be able to select a nas at home. Just a guess though.
- meejah 8y ago
  An expert could figure out how to get the PrivateStorage Tahoe client to use other storage servers, but yes in general it is "a managed service" and I don't think using your own storage-servers will be "a supported configuration".
  - rakoo 8y ago
    At this point you'd just go at the source and use Tahoe directly
    - meejah 8y ago
      Sure, yes you could do that -- I mean, PrivateStorage is just shipping you a "real actual Tahoe client". The main feature you're getting is the managed storage-servers. So if you happened to "not completely trust" the availability of those you could also configure one of your own and configure your client(s) to use that and the PrivateStorage servers. That is, hedging against PrivateStorage going away so suddenly you can't retrieve your data. But, I agree: if you're doing that you're likely able to run your own Tahoe grid on VPSes or similar.
  - stdcli 8y ago
    You can use your own server to host a gaia hub with docker compuse up: https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html , or use a one of the cloud AMIs we are rolling out here: https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html Making user owned storage user friendly for people with non sys admin skills is a challenge, but something we are working towards. because our gaia hubs are associated with user's ids, we are also working on automating SSL as much as possible for individual users as well. This is another technical challenge that makes it difficult for the average person to set up their own trusted environment where they control their own data.
johnchristopher 8y ago
How do you link to a single file you want to share ?

zorked 8y ago

A big thing is that Tahoe LAFS can be run on untrusted computers.

moviuro 8y ago
So you share your data on untrusted machines that you bet will live long enough to hold what you want to keep. Sounds risky. Do storage providers have an incentive to provide the service reliably à la filecoin? [0] [0] https://filecoin.io/ https://filecoin.io/
- deadbunny 8y ago
  Untrusted doesn't mean randomly selected.
- zorked 8y ago
  The Tahoe LAFS model is more that you spread your data over multiple providers. NAS at home, several VPS providers, or what have you. It feels like RAID in the network, and it allows very precise setting of redundancy policies.
- rakoo 8y ago
  I trust S3, B2 Google's blobstore more than some rando's machine who runs filecoin. Tahoe-LAFS gives you the assurance that the actual backend storage only sees encrypted data. The big clouds have this advantage that they are probably more reliable, faster, have lower latency, better uptime, and lower price.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  > Do storage providers have an incentive to provide the service reliably à la filecoin? Yes, via a currency called Dollars.
  - dang 8y ago
    "Don't be snarky." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- meejah 8y ago
  In the PrivateStorage case the machines aren't "trusted" but they are all run by the service you're paying for -- so the incentive to keep them running properly is indeed there. For other kinds of Tahoe deployments, no there's nothing built-in to incentivize storage-server operators. That part is up to whomever is organizing and running the Grid (what Tahoe calls a group of storage-servers). For example, friends could agree to host storage-servers for each other and create redundancy + trust that way. The difference between Tahoe and things like Storj / FileCoin is that those services intend to be "a single, global service" whereas Tahoe is software that can be deployed in several different ways -- one of which is a professionally managed Grid such as PrivateStorage. If you are interested in these topics I'd encourage you to join #tahoe-lafs on Freenode or one of the Tahoe development meetings. These are definitely things I've seen discussed but I think Tahoe-LAFS is far more likely to introduce a concept of "federated Grids" rather than "a single global Tahoe service".
- stdcli 8y ago
  https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html. While we are rolling out AMIs that auto launch gaia hubs, and hosting some to make it user firendly for people with non sys admin skills, you can docker-compose up here: https://github.com/blockstack/gaia/blob/master/hub/README.md https://github.com/blockstack/gaia/blob/master/hub/README.md on a machine you own or trust. We are working to make doing even this as user friendly as possible.
iagovar 8y ago
Is Tahoe LAFS a viable solution for people without sysadmin skills?
- meejah 8y ago
  Tahoe-LAFS by itself is probably not (you do have to configure and keep some Python-based daemon software running), but PrivateStorage is a managed service.

StavrosK 8y ago

Given how rock-solid Syncthing has been, I wonder how hard it would be to bolt encryption onto it so anything that some specific nodes receive is always encrypted.

jammygit 8y ago
Apparently syncthing uses fairly strong crypto in transit, or at least that's what I read recently
- moviuro 8y ago
  That's not what StavrosK is asking for. Some syncthing nodes could host only the encrypted data, without the keys to decrypt them. This adds the benefit of having some nodes host the data, without being able to access it. Think: VPS, etc. that have very good availability track record, but some doubts about whether your hosting company can spy/might be coerced into spying.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    Exactly. If I could be sure that the VPS couldn't read or mess with my files without me knowing, I'd definitely add a SyncThing node on my VPS and have increased availability along with security without any hassle.
    - vanburen 8y ago
      I think it has been considered: https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/109 https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/109 https://www.bountysource.com/issues/1474343-support-for-file-encryption-e-g-non-trusted-servers https://www.bountysource.com/issues/1474343-support-for-file... https://forum.syncthing.net/t/encryption-for-remote-syncthing-device/2820 https://forum.syncthing.net/t/encryption-for-remote-syncthin... Unfortunately there doesn't seem to have been much movement towards making it a feature.
andreareina 8y ago
It wouldn't be only specific nodes, but would something like encfs[1] work? [1] https://github.com/vgough/encfs https://github.com/vgough/encfs

scott00 8y ago

How much data do you sync? I'm syncing 60 GB with NextCloud and it annoys me frequently: every time I log in it spends 5 minutes scanning my data, pegging at least one core of CPU and using up a lot of my I/O capacity. And of course at a pretty annoying time, since I almost always want to be actually using my machine during the first 5 minutes after logging in. And I'd really like to be syncing more data. Anyway, wondering if syncthing does better in this respect.

Chilinot 8y ago
Im using Syncthing as well, and in my Syncthing dir on my laptop there is currently 52 GB of data. That includes a synchting-share for my automatic backups and my "dropbox" replacement (a simple directory for syncing between phone, and computers). It works great. I haven't had any issues with it. The current release of syncthing is very stable. Earlier versios were a bit error prone. But they seem to have fleshed out most, if not all bugs i encountered in earlier versions.
arctux 8y ago
I'm syncing around 90 GB between my server, laptop, and LineageOS Pixel phone. I use it to sync my documents, music, passwords, and archived pictures. I also use it to sync photos taken by my phone camera as they are taken. Setup: * Camera: 1.8 GB, 243 files * Documents: 10.8 GB, 4604 files * Music: 61.5 GB, 25077 files * Passwords: 660 KB, 726 files * Pictures: 16.5 GB, 6450 files The passwords are managed by 'pass' [0], which is viewable on my phone using Password Store [1]. Cold-launching Syncthing takes ~10 seconds on my phone, but it does it automatically on boot and thereafter runs in the background. Battery impact seems to be negligible. [0]: https://www.passwordstore.org/ https://www.passwordstore.org/ [1]: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.zeapo.pwdstore/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.zeapo.pwdstore/ and https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zeapo.pwdstore https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zeapo.pwds...
NickHoff 8y ago
I have about 10 GB in multiple folders synced in various combinations between: - ec2 instance (light burstable, always on) - desktop (debian) - laptop (manjaro) - desktop (windows) - phone (one-way sync to get photos off the phone) - tablet (kindle fire) It has been great. Solid and trustworthy. It picks up changes made before the service was running, handles deletes and renames just fine, and updates are simple. The web-based UI is good. I like that calmh and the team are not adding lots of features. There are lots of things they could add to make syncthing "better", but they want to make sure syncthing does one thing well. One nit - the UI shows the "latest change" for each folder. The common understanding of this phrase would be "the file in that folder that most recently changed" but what syncthing actually shows here is "the most recent change that syncthing made to this folder". That means that if I change a file on the current device and syncthing picks it up and replicates it out to the other devices, that change will not be shown as the "latest change". If some other device changes the file and syncthing replicates that change back to the current device, then it will be shown as the "latest change". This is confusing. "latest change" should just show the file that most recently changed for any reason.

rakoo 8y ago

You can configure Tahoe-LAFS to store data wherever you want but I guess PrivateStorage will have its own settings and you won't be able to select a nas at home. Just a guess though.

meejah 8y ago
An expert could figure out how to get the PrivateStorage Tahoe client to use other storage servers, but yes in general it is "a managed service" and I don't think using your own storage-servers will be "a supported configuration".
- rakoo 8y ago
  At this point you'd just go at the source and use Tahoe directly
  - meejah 8y ago
    Sure, yes you could do that -- I mean, PrivateStorage is just shipping you a "real actual Tahoe client". The main feature you're getting is the managed storage-servers. So if you happened to "not completely trust" the availability of those you could also configure one of your own and configure your client(s) to use that and the PrivateStorage servers. That is, hedging against PrivateStorage going away so suddenly you can't retrieve your data. But, I agree: if you're doing that you're likely able to run your own Tahoe grid on VPSes or similar.
- stdcli 8y ago
  You can use your own server to host a gaia hub with docker compuse up: https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html , or use a one of the cloud AMIs we are rolling out here: https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html https://docs.blockstack.org/storage/overview.html Making user owned storage user friendly for people with non sys admin skills is a challenge, but something we are working towards. because our gaia hubs are associated with user's ids, we are also working on automating SSL as much as possible for individual users as well. This is another technical challenge that makes it difficult for the average person to set up their own trusted environment where they control their own data.

johnchristopher 8y ago

How do you link to a single file you want to share ?