5 ms·

I like this... and agree with Pete - there is no need for a human to stand and make a basic product for 10 hours a day when a robot can do it. BUT.... there wi

by edf13 8y ago

I like this... and agree with Pete - there is no need for a human to stand and make a basic product for 10 hours a day when a robot can do it. BUT.... there will always be a need for quality service and people will pay extra for that. Robots for the quick, fast food/drink. People for the more relaxed service - which of course will cost more.

theredbox 8y ago
Except that robot is completely pointless. It's too expensive and provides no real value. A real barista does not only make a basic product for 10hours. And if it does there are already machines that can replace him immediately without an overly expensive robot. Heck you can have a fully automatic super espresso machine for a fraction of cost of this "robot".
- janekm 8y ago
  As others pointed out... it's a robot arm to move the cup from the full-auto espresso machine to the vending window. Completely pointless given there are coffee vending machines that are already much better than those full-auto espresso machines... (of course... it's not completely pointless... some people will prefer to buy the coffee from the robot arm once for the novelty... and coffee vending machines have negative stigma associated with them, even though the best ones are actually really good)
lm28469 8y ago
> there is no need for a human to stand and make a basic product for 10 hours a day when a robot can do it. Ultimately there is no need for most of what we work on. Once our basic needs and comfort are covered it's a boundless quest for economical growth and a sense of "fulfilment". Low skilled repetitive jobs are needed if we continue on our current economical path. A lot of jobs could already be automated, we could probably work half of what we do now and keep 90% of our comfort. The issue isn't technical it's political / societal. People have been talking about automation for 70+ years [0], we're still more or less at the same stage as back then. We replaced factory workers by machines, great, but this didn't deliver them from work, it just made them shift to other low skilled dead end jobs. Fast food is a good example, they are more and more automated in Europe but in the US it won't happen because many students / people with low education rely on these jobs to survive. Same for walmart, &c ... These jobs aren't a means to an end, they're here to keep low skilled people busy. We sent people to the moon in the 60s, does anyone really believe we can't make a machine that flip patties and make fries (it would be much more efficient and cost a fraction of the employees it would replace) ? What would be the end goal ? Efficiency for efficiency's sake ? Seems like the most efficient scenario would be to end up in a Matrix kind of world. Anecdote: I ofter talk to the barista working for my company's internal coffee shop, he said he'd never change job because he likes human contact and relaxed working hours/conditions. Everything doesn't to be about efficiency / automation. [0] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fourastié https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fourastié "His technological optimism (Le Grand Espoir du xxe siècle, PUF 1949; Machinism et Bien-Être, Ed Minuit 1951; Les 40000 heures, 1965) led him to announce the 30-hour week and an active life span of about 35 years, and to predict that society would evolve relentlessly towards a tertiary type of civilisation, dominated by services"
- Mediterraneo10 8y ago
  > he said he'd never change job because he likes human contact But do all the people he serves like human contact? In some cases it might be a one-way thing where the server thrives off the human contact, but the customer finds it bothersome. One of the great things about the automation that has come along already, like self-service supermarket checkouts and ticket vending machines, is that people who don’t like interacting with strangers can get the everyday services they need in peace and solitude.
  - lm28469 8y ago
    If the end goal of humanity is to be a bunch of loners who only interact with and through machines we're on good tracks. We could also just stay in bed and be fed by tubes, we wouldn't even have to move, 100% efficiency, 0% loss. A society of pure production/consumption without human contacts, man if that's what we're heading to we're in for a wild ride. > everyday services they need in peace and solitude. Move out of the city and you get all the peace and solitude you'll ever need. When you move to a tech hot spot to milk the sweet sweet IT money you kind of sign the social agreement of interacting with other human beings. That's the whole point of societies in the first place; people interacting and exchanging goods and services while living on a shared territory. If human interactions make someone sick to the point of actively avoiding them I think we should stop for a bit and start asking the right questions.
    - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
      > If the end goal of humanity is to be a bunch of loners who only interact with and through machines we're on good tracks. Someone who doesn’t like customer service interactions isn’t necessarily a loner with no human contact in his/her life. The person may be a keen member of clubs, meet people through social networks and then transition to IRL meetups, etc. The difference is that there, people bond over a shared interest, they feel something in common. In a customer-service interaction, there is no common bond, just a transaction, and so the interaction is not cherished human contact. From the shop clerk’s side, it is extremely common to hear complaints about the effort involved in feigning politeness, smiling, etc. Why are you so shocked if some customers feel the same way? > When you move to a tech hot spot to milk the sweet sweet IT money Not everyone on HN is employed in tech.
ashelmire 8y ago
The issue is that these automated drinks generally suck for whatever reason, and the machines break often. And you can’t really customize everything or change things quickly (imagine building a machine with only space for milk and half and half before the soy milk and almond milk craze hit). Oh and could you add a shot of espresso and some whipped cream? We’ve had coffee machines for decades. A robotic arm to serve them is not useful for us.
- bhouston 8y ago
  A robot arm that is generic is actually quite useful. Because you can build stuff around it that it can use. You want more milk types, you just add more milk nozzles that it can access, and these are just containers or cheep non-moving things. The generic robot arm is generic but expensive. I saw this with incredibly expensive robotic arms on a recent cruise. It was actually very very flexible -- all options were external to the arm, and cheap: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-bar https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-... It was a very popular bar on the cruise ship in terms of drinks sold -- but it was also in a prime location. The cruise ship properly understood that these "bionic bar" robots were a performance.
  - ashelmire 8y ago
    That's pretty cool. Apparently the bionic bar costs about 100,000 euros and still requires a human for constant attention. It also appears that they charge 1 euro per cocktail that it makes even when you buy the machine? https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-shakr-3-0/ https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-shakr-3-0/ I like the idea, but that's a lot of up-front expense and still requires humans, electricity, repair, and lacks customizability and speed. If they can bring the cost down it seems like a viable option. Except... how do you not serve people who are already intoxicated? How do you check id (make sure they aren't scanning a friends)? And I guess you aren't building loyalty, which bartenders often do.
- srehnborg 8y ago
  I've been to Cafe X multiple times. This makes a GREAT cup of coffee, matcha, or espresso. It's high quality. This is not just vending machine coffee.

by edf13 8y ago

theredbox 8y ago

Except that robot is completely pointless. It's too expensive and provides no real value. A real barista does not only make a basic product for 10hours. And if it does there are already machines that can replace him immediately without an overly expensive robot. Heck you can have a fully automatic super espresso machine for a fraction of cost of this "robot".

janekm 8y ago
As others pointed out... it's a robot arm to move the cup from the full-auto espresso machine to the vending window. Completely pointless given there are coffee vending machines that are already much better than those full-auto espresso machines... (of course... it's not completely pointless... some people will prefer to buy the coffee from the robot arm once for the novelty... and coffee vending machines have negative stigma associated with them, even though the best ones are actually really good)

lm28469 8y ago

> there is no need for a human to stand and make a basic product for 10 hours a day when a robot can do it. Ultimately there is no need for most of what we work on. Once our basic needs and comfort are covered it's a boundless quest for economical growth and a sense of "fulfilment". Low skilled repetitive jobs are needed if we continue on our current economical path. A lot of jobs could already be automated, we could probably work half of what we do now and keep 90% of our comfort. The issue isn't technical it's political / societal. People have been talking about automation for 70+ years [0], we're still more or less at the same stage as back then. We replaced factory workers by machines, great, but this didn't deliver them from work, it just made them shift to other low skilled dead end jobs. Fast food is a good example, they are more and more automated in Europe but in the US it won't happen because many students / people with low education rely on these jobs to survive. Same for walmart, &c ... These jobs aren't a means to an end, they're here to keep low skilled people busy. We sent people to the moon in the 60s, does anyone really believe we can't make a machine that flip patties and make fries (it would be much more efficient and cost a fraction of the employees it would replace) ? What would be the end goal ? Efficiency for efficiency's sake ? Seems like the most efficient scenario would be to end up in a Matrix kind of world. Anecdote: I ofter talk to the barista working for my company's internal coffee shop, he said he'd never change job because he likes human contact and relaxed working hours/conditions. Everything doesn't to be about efficiency / automation. [0] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fourastié https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Fourastié "His technological optimism (Le Grand Espoir du xxe siècle, PUF 1949; Machinism et Bien-Être, Ed Minuit 1951; Les 40000 heures, 1965) led him to announce the 30-hour week and an active life span of about 35 years, and to predict that society would evolve relentlessly towards a tertiary type of civilisation, dominated by services"

Mediterraneo10 8y ago
> he said he'd never change job because he likes human contact But do all the people he serves like human contact? In some cases it might be a one-way thing where the server thrives off the human contact, but the customer finds it bothersome. One of the great things about the automation that has come along already, like self-service supermarket checkouts and ticket vending machines, is that people who don’t like interacting with strangers can get the everyday services they need in peace and solitude.
- lm28469 8y ago
  If the end goal of humanity is to be a bunch of loners who only interact with and through machines we're on good tracks. We could also just stay in bed and be fed by tubes, we wouldn't even have to move, 100% efficiency, 0% loss. A society of pure production/consumption without human contacts, man if that's what we're heading to we're in for a wild ride. > everyday services they need in peace and solitude. Move out of the city and you get all the peace and solitude you'll ever need. When you move to a tech hot spot to milk the sweet sweet IT money you kind of sign the social agreement of interacting with other human beings. That's the whole point of societies in the first place; people interacting and exchanging goods and services while living on a shared territory. If human interactions make someone sick to the point of actively avoiding them I think we should stop for a bit and start asking the right questions.
  - Mediterraneo10 8y ago
    > If the end goal of humanity is to be a bunch of loners who only interact with and through machines we're on good tracks. Someone who doesn’t like customer service interactions isn’t necessarily a loner with no human contact in his/her life. The person may be a keen member of clubs, meet people through social networks and then transition to IRL meetups, etc. The difference is that there, people bond over a shared interest, they feel something in common. In a customer-service interaction, there is no common bond, just a transaction, and so the interaction is not cherished human contact. From the shop clerk’s side, it is extremely common to hear complaints about the effort involved in feigning politeness, smiling, etc. Why are you so shocked if some customers feel the same way? > When you move to a tech hot spot to milk the sweet sweet IT money Not everyone on HN is employed in tech.

ashelmire 8y ago

The issue is that these automated drinks generally suck for whatever reason, and the machines break often. And you can’t really customize everything or change things quickly (imagine building a machine with only space for milk and half and half before the soy milk and almond milk craze hit). Oh and could you add a shot of espresso and some whipped cream? We’ve had coffee machines for decades. A robotic arm to serve them is not useful for us.

bhouston 8y ago
A robot arm that is generic is actually quite useful. Because you can build stuff around it that it can use. You want more milk types, you just add more milk nozzles that it can access, and these are just containers or cheep non-moving things. The generic robot arm is generic but expensive. I saw this with incredibly expensive robotic arms on a recent cruise. It was actually very very flexible -- all options were external to the arm, and cheap: https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-bar https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/bionic-... It was a very popular bar on the cruise ship in terms of drinks sold -- but it was also in a prime location. The cruise ship properly understood that these "bionic bar" robots were a performance.
- ashelmire 8y ago
  That's pretty cool. Apparently the bionic bar costs about 100,000 euros and still requires a human for constant attention. It also appears that they charge 1 euro per cocktail that it makes even when you buy the machine? https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-shakr-3-0/ https://www.makrshakr.com/makr-shakr-3-0/ I like the idea, but that's a lot of up-front expense and still requires humans, electricity, repair, and lacks customizability and speed. If they can bring the cost down it seems like a viable option. Except... how do you not serve people who are already intoxicated? How do you check id (make sure they aren't scanning a friends)? And I guess you aren't building loyalty, which bartenders often do.
srehnborg 8y ago
I've been to Cafe X multiple times. This makes a GREAT cup of coffee, matcha, or espresso. It's high quality. This is not just vending machine coffee.