5 ms·

Sure, it can result in a criminal charge, but it is not in and of itself a crime. So, investigating them for breach of consent decree is not a 'criminal investi

by darawk 8y ago

Sure, it can result in a criminal charge, but it is not in and of itself a crime. So, investigating them for breach of consent decree is not a 'criminal investigation'.

otterley 8y ago
Bluntly speaking, you are totally, completely wrong. You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one. The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt."
- darawk 8y ago
  > You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be determined by the judge, not the investigators. Therefore, referring to it as a 'criminal investigation' does not make sense if the investigation is strictly investigating breach of a consent decree.
  - otterley 8y ago
    Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.
    - darawk 8y ago
      Ya, I take your point, but I don't think it really is hair splitting unless one of the following is true: A) The base rate of consent-decree breaches resulting in a criminal contempt charge is high, which I very much doubt that it is. B) There is some information about this particular case that makes a criminal contempt charge likely. This could be true, but the article makes no attempt to demonstrate it. Failing one of these things being true, I don't think it's fair to refer to it, at this stage, as a 'criminal investigation'.

by darawk 8y ago

Sure, it can result in a criminal charge, but it is not in and of itself a crime. So, investigating them for breach of consent decree is not a 'criminal investigation'.

otterley 8y ago

Bluntly speaking, you are totally, completely wrong. You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one. The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt."

darawk 8y ago
> You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be determined by the judge, not the investigators. Therefore, referring to it as a 'criminal investigation' does not make sense if the investigation is strictly investigating breach of a consent decree.
- otterley 8y ago
  Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.
  - darawk 8y ago
    Ya, I take your point, but I don't think it really is hair splitting unless one of the following is true: A) The base rate of consent-decree breaches resulting in a criminal contempt charge is high, which I very much doubt that it is. B) There is some information about this particular case that makes a criminal contempt charge likely. This could be true, but the article makes no attempt to demonstrate it. Failing one of these things being true, I don't think it's fair to refer to it, at this stage, as a 'criminal investigation'.