4 ms·

> What’s critical to the current, mostly uninformed discussion is that the 737 MAX system is not triply redundant. In other words, it can be expected to fail mo

> What’s critical to the current, mostly uninformed discussion is that the 737 MAX system is not triply redundant. In other words, it can be expected to fail more frequently than one in a billion flights, which is the certification standard for flight critical systems and structures. How was the plane delivered if it didn't pass certification?

_eht 8y ago
Dolla dolla bills y’all
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ams6110 8y ago
It's grandfathered under the original 737 type certificate from the 1960s. The aircraft would not meet today's certification requirements as a new type
- JauntyHatAngle 8y ago
  As someone with limited knowledge into airplane engineering/certifications, on the surface that seems wrong. I understand (I think) that they made changes to make it essentially handle and act like the 737 therefore it can apply to the same certificate, but surely there should be some kind of time restriction on a certificate applying to new models - even ones that are "similar". Can someone illuminate me as to why this does or does not make sense?
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Boils down to money. A brand new type certificate for a big passenger jet is in the hundreds of millions of dollars in time and money. Therefore you can justify spending quite a lot on lobbying (actual and metaphorical) to get away with reusing one. Edit: And the airlines will lobby on your behalf too. They don't want to have to certify pilots on a new type, or have yet another split of who can fly what.
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  The FAA reviewed the 737 Max 8 following the Lion Air crash and decided to allow it to keep flying. Now obviously they could have made the wrong decision there, but the idea that this plane is somehow skating by with no oversight via a technicality just does not pass the smell test. Edit to add: The 737 Max Wikipedia page details the testing that the Max variant underwent, and links to the 737 type certificate—which devotes 38 pages to the 737-8. Also: > Boeing announced on February 16, 2018 that the 737 MAX 9 has received an amended type certificate (ATC) from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), officially certifying the airplane for commercial service. > This certification marks the culmination of a successful flight test program that began in March 2017 with two Boeing flight test airplanes. The FAA certification affirms that the airplane’s handling, systems and overall performance all comply with required aviation regulations. https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/02/16/boeing-737-max-9-awarded-faa-certification/ https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/02/16/boeing-737-max-9-awa...
sn41 8y ago
This has been mentioned in the discussions - the "Red Flag" comment : "The fact that this airplane requires such jury rigging to fly is a red flag'.[1] " What happened, I think, is deceptive naming - a fairly different model was given the name of a safe plane. I think this would have simplified and lessened the certification requirements for the new model. The other models of 737 are among the safest in the world. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-737-max-banned-pilots-concerns-a8820496.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-...
skybrian 8y ago
I think this is a misunderstanding. He's not saying the plane didn't pass certification. The standard he's referencing is for "flight critical" things that the pilot can't compensate for or do without.

_eht 8y ago

Dolla dolla bills y’all

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ams6110 8y ago

It's grandfathered under the original 737 type certificate from the 1960s. The aircraft would not meet today's certification requirements as a new type

JauntyHatAngle 8y ago
As someone with limited knowledge into airplane engineering/certifications, on the surface that seems wrong. I understand (I think) that they made changes to make it essentially handle and act like the 737 therefore it can apply to the same certificate, but surely there should be some kind of time restriction on a certificate applying to new models - even ones that are "similar". Can someone illuminate me as to why this does or does not make sense?
- tyingq 8y ago
  Boils down to money. A brand new type certificate for a big passenger jet is in the hundreds of millions of dollars in time and money. Therefore you can justify spending quite a lot on lobbying (actual and metaphorical) to get away with reusing one. Edit: And the airlines will lobby on your behalf too. They don't want to have to certify pilots on a new type, or have yet another split of who can fly what.
snowwrestler 8y ago
The FAA reviewed the 737 Max 8 following the Lion Air crash and decided to allow it to keep flying. Now obviously they could have made the wrong decision there, but the idea that this plane is somehow skating by with no oversight via a technicality just does not pass the smell test. Edit to add: The 737 Max Wikipedia page details the testing that the Max variant underwent, and links to the 737 type certificate—which devotes 38 pages to the 737-8. Also: > Boeing announced on February 16, 2018 that the 737 MAX 9 has received an amended type certificate (ATC) from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), officially certifying the airplane for commercial service. > This certification marks the culmination of a successful flight test program that began in March 2017 with two Boeing flight test airplanes. The FAA certification affirms that the airplane’s handling, systems and overall performance all comply with required aviation regulations. https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/02/16/boeing-737-max-9-awarded-faa-certification/ https://worldairlinenews.com/2018/02/16/boeing-737-max-9-awa...

sn41 8y ago

This has been mentioned in the discussions - the "Red Flag" comment : "The fact that this airplane requires such jury rigging to fly is a red flag'.[1] " What happened, I think, is deceptive naming - a fairly different model was given the name of a safe plane. I think this would have simplified and lessened the certification requirements for the new model. The other models of 737 are among the safest in the world. [1] https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-737-max-banned-pilots-concerns-a8820496.html https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/boeing-...

skybrian 8y ago

I think this is a misunderstanding. He's not saying the plane didn't pass certification. The standard he's referencing is for "flight critical" things that the pilot can't compensate for or do without.