6 ms·

Breach of a consent decree is not necessarily criminal, as far as I can tell. And even if it was, it definitely wouldn't represent a crime on the part of any FB

by darawk 8y ago

Breach of a consent decree is not necessarily criminal, as far as I can tell. And even if it was, it definitely wouldn't represent a crime on the part of any FB engineers.

otterley 8y ago
Attorney here! Violation of a consent decree can result in criminal contempt-of-court charges. See 18 U.S.C. section 401 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401). See also United States v. Schine, 125 F. Supp. 734 (W.D.N.Y. 1954).
- ohitburns 8y ago
  But why why would that be enforced by the USAO-EDNY?
- darawk 8y ago
  Sure, it can result in a criminal charge, but it is not in and of itself a crime. So, investigating them for breach of consent decree is not a 'criminal investigation'.
  - otterley 8y ago
    Bluntly speaking, you are totally, completely wrong. You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one. The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt."
    - darawk 8y ago
      > You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be determined by the judge, not the investigators. Therefore, referring to it as a 'criminal investigation' does not make sense if the investigation is strictly investigating breach of a consent decree.
      - otterley 8y ago
        Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.
        darawk 8y ago
        Ya, I take your point, but I don't think it really is hair splitting unless one of the following is true: A) The base rate of consent-decree breaches resulting in a criminal contempt charge is high, which I very much doubt that it is. B) There is some information about this particular case that makes a criminal contempt charge likely. This could be true, but the article makes no attempt to demonstrate it. Failing one of these things being true, I don't think it's fair to refer to it, at this stage, as a 'criminal investigation'.
elliekelly 8y ago
Under the Federal Wiretap Act[1] intentionally using a device to intercept an electronic communication is a crime. Since the NYT article indicates the investigation is focused on device manufacturers and the article notes the devices may have facilitated the sharing of user data without consent this is the most likely potential charge. [1]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511

by darawk 8y ago

Breach of a consent decree is not necessarily criminal, as far as I can tell. And even if it was, it definitely wouldn't represent a crime on the part of any FB engineers.

otterley 8y ago

Attorney here! Violation of a consent decree can result in criminal contempt-of-court charges. See 18 U.S.C. section 401 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/401). See also United States v. Schine, 125 F. Supp. 734 (W.D.N.Y. 1954).

ohitburns 8y ago
But why why would that be enforced by the USAO-EDNY?
darawk 8y ago
Sure, it can result in a criminal charge, but it is not in and of itself a crime. So, investigating them for breach of consent decree is not a 'criminal investigation'.
- otterley 8y ago
  Bluntly speaking, you are totally, completely wrong. You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one. The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt."
  - darawk 8y ago
    > You can't imprison someone in the U.S. unless that person is reasonably suspected of a crime or has committed one I didn't say otherwise. > The code in question allows for such imprisonment - that's why it's called "criminal contempt." I don't disagree. What I said is that breach of a consent decree is not necessarily a case of criminal contempt. And whether or not it does rise to the level of criminality will be determined by the judge, not the investigators. Therefore, referring to it as a 'criminal investigation' does not make sense if the investigation is strictly investigating breach of a consent decree.
    - otterley 8y ago
      Agreed, but it seems like pointless hair-splitting to me. One could reasonably still call it a criminal investigation even if it leads only to a civil contempt finding. Many situations are investigated as possible crimes even if no activity rising to the level of a crime is found.
      - darawk 8y ago
        Ya, I take your point, but I don't think it really is hair splitting unless one of the following is true: A) The base rate of consent-decree breaches resulting in a criminal contempt charge is high, which I very much doubt that it is. B) There is some information about this particular case that makes a criminal contempt charge likely. This could be true, but the article makes no attempt to demonstrate it. Failing one of these things being true, I don't think it's fair to refer to it, at this stage, as a 'criminal investigation'.

elliekelly 8y ago

Under the Federal Wiretap Act[1] intentionally using a device to intercept an electronic communication is a crime. Since the NYT article indicates the investigation is focused on device manufacturers and the article notes the devices may have facilitated the sharing of user data without consent this is the most likely potential charge. [1]https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2511