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I imagine the NSA uses an optical tap device. These devices create identical copies and require no power or management.

by popz41 8y ago

cronix 8y ago
That's why it's called PRISM. It's exactly what you describe. Splitting an optical signal into 2 using, basically, a prism. One signal goes out to the net as normal, the other goes to their own datacenters, that they keep continually building and expanding. The newer ones are being build on military bases, for added security. Check em out. Look at the size and cost of them. Some are over a million sq. ft. That's a lot of data. They measure it in terms of zottabytes and zettabytes (in 2013, a lifetime ago in terms of storage space): https://modernsurvivalblog.com/government-gone-wild/nsa-locations-in-the-united-states/ https://modernsurvivalblog.com/government-gone-wild/nsa-loca... http://worldstopdatacenters.com/government-data-centers/ http://worldstopdatacenters.com/government-data-centers/
- newaccoutnas 8y ago
  I wonder if they publish their drive failure rates like BackBlaze? 5 Eyes tax payers and all.
- sterlind 8y ago
  Nah, PRISM referred to the front door for lawful access to customer records under warrant. That's the sort of portal that China once hacked Gmail by gaining access to.. the companies explicitly built those access relays. The beam splitter stuff (e.g. Room 641A) went by different codenames, TRAFFICTHIEF and TURMOIL iirc. That's the back door.
- tivert 8y ago
  > The newer ones are being build on military bases, for added security. IIRC, the NSA is organizationally part of the military, and it's currently headed by a military officer who gives congressional testimony in his uniform (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMi241XLeQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMi241XLeQ8). It makes sense they'd build on military bases, it'd be kinda weird if they didn't.
- bduerst 8y ago
  No, it was called MUSCULAR. PRISM is different. Also, the majority of tech and data companies have closed this loophole by encrypting traffic between data centers. Nobody thought it was necessary to do it before over dark fiber before because, hey, who was listening? (answer: the NSA was)
- propogandist 8y ago
  One of my coworkers came from a large telecom. He mentioned they had to get technology from an Israeli firm that specializes in quantum cryptography on the fiber optic line to fend of NSA and GCHQ, who are apparently worse than NSA. (iirc) the tech apparently encrypts data streams on one side and check to see if the hash is the same on the other side, if somethings off (evidence of tamper) it instantly changes the cipher.
FooHentai 8y ago
Optical tap for unauthorized access, but surely port mirrors for the national-security-letter stuff. Wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle of a tap install and the ongoing risk of it failing, versus using a capability available on almost all serious switching hardware to give you a guaranteed 1:1.
6nf 8y ago
They would still need the encryption keys since Google encrypts their inter-data center fiber
samstave 8y ago
And they have been using the USS Jimmy Carter sub with the front huge cable splice bay for decades to compromise all undersea cables. >>>The New York Times reported in 2005 that the USS Jimmy Carter, a highly advanced submarine that was the only one of its class built, had a capability to tap undersea cables. An Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers report speculated that a 45-foot extension added to the Jimmy Carter provided this capability by allowing engineers to bring the cable up into a floodable chamber to install a tap. But it is unlikely that the USS Jimmy Carter routinely taps cables since U.S. intelligence agencies can much more easily (and lawfully) obtain cable data through taps at above-ground cable landing stations. https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-undersea-cables https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-unders...
- dontbenebby 8y ago
  I wonder how Jimmy Carter feels about his namesake being used to wiretap the world? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/26/jimmy-carter-says-he-would-consider-pardoning-edward-snowden/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03...
  - samstave 8y ago
    It was a known FU to carter...
    - dontbenebby 8y ago
      But the USS Jimmy Carter launched in 2004: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter I don't think he made any pre-Snowden comments on mass surveillance?

I imagine the NSA uses an optical tap device. These devices create identical copies and require no power or management.

by popz41 8y ago

I imagine the NSA uses an optical tap device. These devices create identical copies and require no power or management.

That's why it's called PRISM. It's exactly what you describe. Splitting an optical signal into 2 using, basically, a prism. One signal goes out to the net as normal, the other goes to their own datacenters, that they keep continually building and expanding. The newer ones are being build on military bases, for added security. Check em out. Look at the size and cost of them. Some are over a million sq. ft. That's a lot of data. They measure it in terms of zottabytes and zettabytes (in 2013, a lifetime ago in terms of storage space): https://modernsurvivalblog.com/government-gone-wild/nsa-locations-in-the-united-states/ https://modernsurvivalblog.com/government-gone-wild/nsa-loca... http://worldstopdatacenters.com/government-data-centers/ http://worldstopdatacenters.com/government-data-centers/

newaccoutnas 8y ago
I wonder if they publish their drive failure rates like BackBlaze? 5 Eyes tax payers and all.
sterlind 8y ago
Nah, PRISM referred to the front door for lawful access to customer records under warrant. That's the sort of portal that China once hacked Gmail by gaining access to.. the companies explicitly built those access relays. The beam splitter stuff (e.g. Room 641A) went by different codenames, TRAFFICTHIEF and TURMOIL iirc. That's the back door.
tivert 8y ago
> The newer ones are being build on military bases, for added security. IIRC, the NSA is organizationally part of the military, and it's currently headed by a military officer who gives congressional testimony in his uniform (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMi241XLeQ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMi241XLeQ8). It makes sense they'd build on military bases, it'd be kinda weird if they didn't.
bduerst 8y ago
No, it was called MUSCULAR. PRISM is different. Also, the majority of tech and data companies have closed this loophole by encrypting traffic between data centers. Nobody thought it was necessary to do it before over dark fiber before because, hey, who was listening? (answer: the NSA was)
propogandist 8y ago
One of my coworkers came from a large telecom. He mentioned they had to get technology from an Israeli firm that specializes in quantum cryptography on the fiber optic line to fend of NSA and GCHQ, who are apparently worse than NSA. (iirc) the tech apparently encrypts data streams on one side and check to see if the hash is the same on the other side, if somethings off (evidence of tamper) it instantly changes the cipher.

FooHentai 8y ago

Optical tap for unauthorized access, but surely port mirrors for the national-security-letter stuff. Wouldn't make sense to go through the hassle of a tap install and the ongoing risk of it failing, versus using a capability available on almost all serious switching hardware to give you a guaranteed 1:1.

6nf 8y ago

They would still need the encryption keys since Google encrypts their inter-data center fiber

samstave 8y ago

And they have been using the USS Jimmy Carter sub with the front huge cable splice bay for decades to compromise all undersea cables. >>>The New York Times reported in 2005 that the USS Jimmy Carter, a highly advanced submarine that was the only one of its class built, had a capability to tap undersea cables. An Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers report speculated that a 45-foot extension added to the Jimmy Carter provided this capability by allowing engineers to bring the cable up into a floodable chamber to install a tap. But it is unlikely that the USS Jimmy Carter routinely taps cables since U.S. intelligence agencies can much more easily (and lawfully) obtain cable data through taps at above-ground cable landing stations. https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-undersea-cables https://www.lawfareblog.com/evaluating-russian-threat-unders...

dontbenebby 8y ago
I wonder how Jimmy Carter feels about his namesake being used to wiretap the world? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03/26/jimmy-carter-says-he-would-consider-pardoning-edward-snowden/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/03...
- samstave 8y ago
  It was a known FU to carter...
  - dontbenebby 8y ago
    But the USS Jimmy Carter launched in 2004: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jimmy_Carter I don't think he made any pre-Snowden comments on mass surveillance?