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I'm guessing that Southwest didn't have these. They seem to get everything important right. Edit: I was dead wrong. They had more 737 Max 8's than any other ai

I'm guessing that Southwest didn't have these. They seem to get everything important right. Edit: I was dead wrong. They had more 737 Max 8's than any other airline in the US.

yryan 8y ago
SWA supposedly opted for an upgrade that would warn of the erroneous readings
- linuxftw 8y ago
  If you believe the narrative about erroneous readings, this makes a difference. Nothing concrete about the latest crash, could be 100% software related.
- nickjj 8y ago
  I hope there's more to that upgrade story. I mean, micro-transactions are popular in video games but an optional feature that gives you +1 life in real life is almost unthinkable to put behind an additional paywall.
  - mimixco 8y ago
    Good analogy. Seat belts were an extra cost "feature" when they first came out.
ak217 8y ago
Southwest has more 737max than anyone else. However they have outfitted it with an optional avionics package that includes a HUD, an additional AoA sensor and indicator in the HUD and PFD, and an "AoA disagree" indicator light. (https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/southwest-airlines-is-adding-new-angle-of-attack-indicators-to-its-737-max-fleet/ https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/southwest-airlines...) They also train their pilots using a 737max specific curriculum.
- benatkin 8y ago
  Hah, so I was right, in a way. They took the good without the bad. Except now these planes still grounded, so if they could have predicted this, perhaps they would have been smart not to buy them.
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    They were probably well into the process of purchasing the aircraft when they realized the extent of this issue, and might already have made financial arrangements that made them hesitate to back out. If this is a short grounding that is resolved by substantially the same measures as Southwest has already instituted, they'll look pretty smart. I wonder if airlines can buy insurance against losses due to problems with newly-purchased aircraft?
    - benatkin 8y ago
      They may have not thought it inferior without the upgrades. If they had, I hope they tried to tell someone their concerns. We might find out.
- gimmeThaBeet 8y ago
  That actually makes me feel simultaneously a lot better and worse that some party, especially Southwest, who in my personal travels has been my favorite airline, has been proactive with this. But also kind of like "if a customer had some suspicions about some avionics weirdness or training, why aren't you as a responsible vendor understanding or addressing it holistically?"
- burlesona 8y ago
  That’s fascinating. It does seem to add a little credence that there may be a training problem with these planes, perhaps that Boeing facilitated this training “shortcut” when they shouldn’t have, and that the US / Euro carriers didn’t have the crashes because they go above and beyond with training anyway. All speculation at this point but I’m really interested to see where this ends up after the investigations are complete.
- 8y ago
horyzen 8y ago
In fact, Southwest had very little choice purchasing new planes: their entire fleet are 737s (of various versions) so that they can lower personnel training & maintaining costs, which is part of the reason their prices are typically lower. So if they were to expand their fleet while still trying to minimize the cost they had basically no choice but to keep buying new 737s. I don't blame Southwest though, after all the FAA and Boeing gave the green light for these jets. It would be interesting to see where Southwest is going if 737 Max is discontinued after this.
- gsnedders 8y ago
  Note there are two sides to both coins: Southwest won't have such a good negotiating position with Boeing when it comes to ordering new aircraft, as they're much less likely to go to Airbus and buy A320 family aircraft (and even if Airbus offered a good deal, the logistical costs of moving to a more varied fleet add costs on top of that, and Boeing only needs to compete with the sum of the two).

I'm guessing that Southwest didn't have these. They seem to get everything important right. Edit: I was dead wrong. They had more 737 Max 8's than any other airline in the US.

yryan 8y ago

SWA supposedly opted for an upgrade that would warn of the erroneous readings

linuxftw 8y ago
If you believe the narrative about erroneous readings, this makes a difference. Nothing concrete about the latest crash, could be 100% software related.
nickjj 8y ago
I hope there's more to that upgrade story. I mean, micro-transactions are popular in video games but an optional feature that gives you +1 life in real life is almost unthinkable to put behind an additional paywall.
- mimixco 8y ago
  Good analogy. Seat belts were an extra cost "feature" when they first came out.

ak217 8y ago

Southwest has more 737max than anyone else. However they have outfitted it with an optional avionics package that includes a HUD, an additional AoA sensor and indicator in the HUD and PFD, and an "AoA disagree" indicator light. (https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/southwest-airlines-is-adding-new-angle-of-attack-indicators-to-its-737-max-fleet/ https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/southwest-airlines...) They also train their pilots using a 737max specific curriculum.

benatkin 8y ago
Hah, so I was right, in a way. They took the good without the bad. Except now these planes still grounded, so if they could have predicted this, perhaps they would have been smart not to buy them.
- jessaustin 8y ago
  They were probably well into the process of purchasing the aircraft when they realized the extent of this issue, and might already have made financial arrangements that made them hesitate to back out. If this is a short grounding that is resolved by substantially the same measures as Southwest has already instituted, they'll look pretty smart. I wonder if airlines can buy insurance against losses due to problems with newly-purchased aircraft?
  - benatkin 8y ago
    They may have not thought it inferior without the upgrades. If they had, I hope they tried to tell someone their concerns. We might find out.
gimmeThaBeet 8y ago
That actually makes me feel simultaneously a lot better and worse that some party, especially Southwest, who in my personal travels has been my favorite airline, has been proactive with this. But also kind of like "if a customer had some suspicions about some avionics weirdness or training, why aren't you as a responsible vendor understanding or addressing it holistically?"
burlesona 8y ago
That’s fascinating. It does seem to add a little credence that there may be a training problem with these planes, perhaps that Boeing facilitated this training “shortcut” when they shouldn’t have, and that the US / Euro carriers didn’t have the crashes because they go above and beyond with training anyway. All speculation at this point but I’m really interested to see where this ends up after the investigations are complete.
8y ago

horyzen 8y ago

In fact, Southwest had very little choice purchasing new planes: their entire fleet are 737s (of various versions) so that they can lower personnel training & maintaining costs, which is part of the reason their prices are typically lower. So if they were to expand their fleet while still trying to minimize the cost they had basically no choice but to keep buying new 737s. I don't blame Southwest though, after all the FAA and Boeing gave the green light for these jets. It would be interesting to see where Southwest is going if 737 Max is discontinued after this.

gsnedders 8y ago
Note there are two sides to both coins: Southwest won't have such a good negotiating position with Boeing when it comes to ordering new aircraft, as they're much less likely to go to Airbus and buy A320 family aircraft (and even if Airbus offered a good deal, the logistical costs of moving to a more varied fleet add costs on top of that, and Boeing only needs to compete with the sum of the two).