6 ms·

In the middle of a butterfly crisis, California sees a burst of painted ladies

70 points by curtis 8y ago

failrate 8y ago
I was lucky to see this yesterday, and it was one of the most magical things I've seen in a very long time. Every time I thought that they'd finish passing by me, another wave of them would come. It was relentless and awesome.
- failrate 8y ago
  Update: they're still flying through!
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  They are amazing. With this gentle river of butterflies meandering across LA's clear, blue, hospitable sky you can forget everything from your little piece of sidewalk and just stare into nature's magical distance till the exact instant you're hit by some idiot's muscle car.
lisper 8y ago
Just to be clear, the butterfly crisis is not the sudden abundance of painted ladies, it's the drastic decline in all other butterfly species (including painted ladies, with this year being a notable exception). Insect populations are in decline worldwide. I can add a personal anecdotal data point to this: we were in Africa on safari ten years ago. As you would expect, there were bugs everywhere. We just got back from a similar trip, revisiting some of the same places we had been before. There were hardly any insects at all, even in the rain forest. Personally, that scares the hell out of me.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  I lived in the country for the first 20 years of my life. Insect populations varied wildly year by year. Like hugely wildly. One year it would be tons, swallowing bugs as you'd cycle, the next you'd hardly notice them. Little anecdotes like yours are honestly not meaningful as you don't realise just how variable these things are naturally.
  - mistrial9 8y ago
    yeah , except that in this case, he is on to something.. dismissing the emotion and the anecdotal evidence seems super-convenient
    - icebraining 8y ago
      Convenient for whom?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - lisper 8y ago
    Yes, my anecdote in isolation means nothing. But it's not in isolation. This is a real world-wide phenomenon: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeti...
    - mjburgess 8y ago
      Yes, but not to the degree of your anecdote. You observed the background cycles of insect population variation. No person is in a position to observe the next effect of population decreases across many such cycles.
      - ceejayoz 8y ago
        > You observed the background cycles of insect population variation. They openly described their statement as an anecdote. Meanwhile, you're making a pretty conclusive statement here, without any apparent evidence for it. How do you know their observed reduction in insect population is "background cycle" and not the global reductions scientists have been empirically observing?
        lisper 8y ago
        Just for the record, I also asked several locals if they noticed fewer insects. They all said yes, that the change had been dramatic over the last few years.
ravenstine 8y ago
It was pretty amazing to see today driving on the I-10. :) It's nice to see at least some bugs in the sky for a change.
forgotmypw3 8y ago
Every time you spend a dollar/euro/etc on non-organic produce, food and external products made with pesticide-sprayed stuff, and most animal products, you are using the most important vote you have to support the practices that are causing the butterfly decline. You are only 2-5 money steps removed from the process of spraying pesticides all over these butterflies' environment.
- bdamm 8y ago
  I've become a bit jaded about getting foods labelled "Organic". Plus organic food is damned expensive, which places it in the category of a luxury. I see no evidence that my organic food dollars are doing anything other than lining the pockets of the food distribution industry. Better might be to do everything we can to ensure a well functioning government that is observing the damage to the environment from pesticides and making well reasoned policy adjustments to how those pesticides are approved, used, monitored, and disposed of.
  - specialist 8y ago
    "Organic" labeling is the victim of regulatory capture. eg raise the bar via organic certification, thereby favoring the bigger players. Same as it ever was. I mostly buy bulk and staples (less processed foods). Also favor local, co-ops, and farmers markets. But it's not very practical. I wish I had better options, strategies.
- stouset 8y ago
  If you believe organic foods are not sprayed with pesticides you have been wildly misled. They typically require higher quantities of pesticides than non-organic crops, due to the lesser effectiveness of organic pesticides. And those pesticides are often effective for significantly longer than their non-organic counterparts.
  - ip26 8y ago
    Yeah, but what pesticide? I don't really mind if my food get sprayed with lots of ethanol, lemon juice, or soap, which are three organic-approved pesticides.
therealISW 8y ago
I remember when a horde of Painted Ladies took over Bullhead City AZ for a day back in the 90s. So amazing to watch.
mark-r 8y ago
A year and a half ago there was an explosion of them in Minnesota as well. Last summer though I don't remember if I saw any at all. https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3708563345/photos/3677554/imgp7669 https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3708563345/photos/3677554...
smhinsey 8y ago
A year or two back we had a super bloom of Joshua Trees at the eponymous park and one of the rangers said that while yes, it's a beautiful sight, it's also a little scary, because they only do that when they're under extreme stress, it's a sign of them almost giving up hope. I hope what we're seeing with the butterflies isn't a similar dying gasp.
nukeop 8y ago
Butterfly populations fluctuate wildly over the decades, there's no "butterfly crisis". We've already seen such declines followed by huge population bursts after some time. There's no reason to speculate that this won't happen again.
- black-tea 8y ago
  Yeah, a lot of people similarly bury their heads in the sand.
- Const-me 8y ago
  There is butterfly species crisis, many are endangered and will go extinct soon. At the same time there's no butterfly quantity crisis. I wonder about journalists writing news titles, are they stupid, or do they pretend they are?
  - specialist 8y ago
    Think of the truth as a salmon trying to spawn, and all the challenges that beset it. Miscommunication, misunderstanding is the norm. We just have to power thru it.

70 points by curtis 8y ago

I was lucky to see this yesterday, and it was one of the most magical things I've seen in a very long time. Every time I thought that they'd finish passing by me, another wave of them would come. It was relentless and awesome.

failrate 8y ago
Update: they're still flying through!
HillaryBriss 8y ago
They are amazing. With this gentle river of butterflies meandering across LA's clear, blue, hospitable sky you can forget everything from your little piece of sidewalk and just stare into nature's magical distance till the exact instant you're hit by some idiot's muscle car.

lisper 8y ago

Just to be clear, the butterfly crisis is not the sudden abundance of painted ladies, it's the drastic decline in all other butterfly species (including painted ladies, with this year being a notable exception). Insect populations are in decline worldwide. I can add a personal anecdotal data point to this: we were in Africa on safari ten years ago. As you would expect, there were bugs everywhere. We just got back from a similar trip, revisiting some of the same places we had been before. There were hardly any insects at all, even in the rain forest. Personally, that scares the hell out of me.

mattmanser 8y ago
I lived in the country for the first 20 years of my life. Insect populations varied wildly year by year. Like hugely wildly. One year it would be tons, swallowing bugs as you'd cycle, the next you'd hardly notice them. Little anecdotes like yours are honestly not meaningful as you don't realise just how variable these things are naturally.
- mistrial9 8y ago
  yeah , except that in this case, he is on to something.. dismissing the emotion and the anecdotal evidence seems super-convenient
  - icebraining 8y ago
    Convenient for whom?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- lisper 8y ago
  Yes, my anecdote in isolation means nothing. But it's not in isolation. This is a real world-wide phenomenon: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeting-insect-numbers-threaten-collapse-of-nature https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/feb/10/plummeti...
  - mjburgess 8y ago
    Yes, but not to the degree of your anecdote. You observed the background cycles of insect population variation. No person is in a position to observe the next effect of population decreases across many such cycles.
    - ceejayoz 8y ago
      > You observed the background cycles of insect population variation. They openly described their statement as an anecdote. Meanwhile, you're making a pretty conclusive statement here, without any apparent evidence for it. How do you know their observed reduction in insect population is "background cycle" and not the global reductions scientists have been empirically observing?
      - lisper 8y ago
        Just for the record, I also asked several locals if they noticed fewer insects. They all said yes, that the change had been dramatic over the last few years.

ravenstine 8y ago

It was pretty amazing to see today driving on the I-10. :) It's nice to see at least some bugs in the sky for a change.

forgotmypw3 8y ago

Every time you spend a dollar/euro/etc on non-organic produce, food and external products made with pesticide-sprayed stuff, and most animal products, you are using the most important vote you have to support the practices that are causing the butterfly decline. You are only 2-5 money steps removed from the process of spraying pesticides all over these butterflies' environment.

bdamm 8y ago
I've become a bit jaded about getting foods labelled "Organic". Plus organic food is damned expensive, which places it in the category of a luxury. I see no evidence that my organic food dollars are doing anything other than lining the pockets of the food distribution industry. Better might be to do everything we can to ensure a well functioning government that is observing the damage to the environment from pesticides and making well reasoned policy adjustments to how those pesticides are approved, used, monitored, and disposed of.
- specialist 8y ago
  "Organic" labeling is the victim of regulatory capture. eg raise the bar via organic certification, thereby favoring the bigger players. Same as it ever was. I mostly buy bulk and staples (less processed foods). Also favor local, co-ops, and farmers markets. But it's not very practical. I wish I had better options, strategies.
stouset 8y ago
If you believe organic foods are not sprayed with pesticides you have been wildly misled. They typically require higher quantities of pesticides than non-organic crops, due to the lesser effectiveness of organic pesticides. And those pesticides are often effective for significantly longer than their non-organic counterparts.
- ip26 8y ago
  Yeah, but what pesticide? I don't really mind if my food get sprayed with lots of ethanol, lemon juice, or soap, which are three organic-approved pesticides.

therealISW 8y ago

I remember when a horde of Painted Ladies took over Bullhead City AZ for a day back in the 90s. So amazing to watch.

mark-r 8y ago

A year and a half ago there was an explosion of them in Minnesota as well. Last summer though I don't remember if I saw any at all. https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3708563345/photos/3677554/imgp7669 https://www.dpreview.com/galleries/3708563345/photos/3677554...

smhinsey 8y ago

A year or two back we had a super bloom of Joshua Trees at the eponymous park and one of the rangers said that while yes, it's a beautiful sight, it's also a little scary, because they only do that when they're under extreme stress, it's a sign of them almost giving up hope. I hope what we're seeing with the butterflies isn't a similar dying gasp.

nukeop 8y ago

Butterfly populations fluctuate wildly over the decades, there's no "butterfly crisis". We've already seen such declines followed by huge population bursts after some time. There's no reason to speculate that this won't happen again.

black-tea 8y ago
Yeah, a lot of people similarly bury their heads in the sand.
Const-me 8y ago
There is butterfly species crisis, many are endangered and will go extinct soon. At the same time there's no butterfly quantity crisis. I wonder about journalists writing news titles, are they stupid, or do they pretend they are?
- specialist 8y ago
  Think of the truth as a salmon trying to spawn, and all the challenges that beset it. Miscommunication, misunderstanding is the norm. We just have to power thru it.