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I always read about Dwarf Fortress in HN and it always interested me. But some elements, like the ASCII art, always seemed to me as entry barriers purposefully

• jandrese 8y ago
  IMHO, the graphics aren't nearly as much of a barrier as the interface. If you just install DF and open it up you will be overwhelmed and there's no help system holding your hand. The word "inscrutable" gets tossed around a lot with Dwarf Fortress, because it is the prefect encapsulation of the first time player's experience.
  • tptacek 8y ago
    The interface is part of the charm; you get dopamine hits not just for knowing what to do, but also figuring out (after trial and fun^H^H^Herror) how to do the things you're trying to do.
    • jandrese 8y ago
      Or you know, even what you are supposed to be doing. The game asks you a whole bunch of questions about how to create the universe that you have no idea about, then it plops you down with a bunch of dwarves in some kind of environment, and you know you're supposed to dig a home and I guess you need to task the Dwarves to do that (they're just wandering around aimlessly), but when you try to give the Dwarves a task they just wander around aimlessly still for no apparent reason.
  • vkou 8y ago
    I strongly agree. Even if Dwarf Fortress had the graphics of Rimworld (Which are aesthetically pleasing and visually distinct), its user-interface (The military system, the equipment system, any construction-related interaction with Z-levels, the fifty million jobs that dwarves can have) is insane.
• gmfawcett 8y ago
  You've been able to play DF with tile graphics for many years. Check out the "Lazy Newb Pack": http://dwarffortresswiki.org/Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack http://dwarffortresswiki.org/Utility:Lazy_Newb_Pack
  • soneca 8y ago
    First time I heard of it, thanks!
    • bradford 8y ago
      the lazy newb pack is great! I can't play dwarf fortress without it, but even with it the game has a steep learning curve.
      • gmfawcett 8y ago
        Yes, steep is an understatement!
• Retra 8y ago
  To be fair, it is a video game and a personal project. There's no expectation of inclusiveness there. And I wouldn't say that the interface is an intentional barrier to entry, it is just not their favored feature to work on, so it simply receives little work.
• mLuby 8y ago
  >...there's way too much information to decode Dwarf Fortress. You get used to it, though. Your brain does the translating. I don't even see the code. All I see is dwarf, tree, bed.
• mikekchar 8y ago
  To understand DF, you need to understand the the reason that the ASCII art exists is because Tarn is not an artist and decided to prioritise other things. Art was not considered important enough to spend time on. Neither was a consistent UI. Neither was fixing "quality of life" bugs. This was never an attempt to purposely build a subculture that enjoys puzzling out how to play the game. It's a choice of prioritising the other aspects of the work over these aspects. The people who avidly play DF self-selected by being able to persist through all of the sub-optimal parts to discover the wonderful parts. Just keep that in mind if you decide to give it a go. I think to enjoy it, you need to have a relaxed attitude. I see a lot of incensed people on the forums who loudly proclaim, "How can you put up with such a crappy game?". The reputation of being the most complex game in the world, or being the hardest game to play is just wrong, unfortunately. People get the idea that there is some benefit to the complexity -- like using Blender or Vim. But there isn't. It's just complex because the work flows have never been thought through that much and there are bugs all over the place. The reason to play the game is the emergent story telling, for which there is nothing else that even comes close. You persist through the problems, to get to the gems. Maybe some people enjoy the persistence, I don't know, but that's not the point of DF. Anyway, I hope that puts things into perspective.