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That's a really one sided view of the equation. You aren't considering all the benefit from encouraging people to do jobs they might not otherwise do, yet that

That's a really one sided view of the equation. You aren't considering all the benefit from encouraging people to do jobs they might not otherwise do, yet that need to be done. I'd imagine there are many positives to the system that you are ignoring simply to find the next Einstein. Which is kind of a fallacy, because science is not done by a lone genius but by teams of researchers over decades.

rosser 8y ago
I never said no-one should have "jobs" or do difficult things. Maybe there are people in the world whose aspiration is to do those unglamorous things that need doing, just to keep the societal wheels properly greased. There are absolutely enough people in the world who are civically-minded enough that they'll take on crap work that needs doing, without obligating everyone else also to do what is, for most of them, also crap work, but which doesn't do those "socially necessary" things, and instead merely shuffles papers from one folder to another. I fail utterly to see how "there are some things that need to be done" is most appropriately addressed by "Ok, make everyone do something..." EDIT: Phrasing
- giggles_giggles 8y ago
  >I fail utterly to see how "there are some things that need to be done" is most appropriately addressed by "Ok, make everyone do something... If something needs to be done, someone has to do it. The person who is going to do it either must be forced (slavery) or compensated such that they do the unpleasant, necessary thing voluntarily (payment). If others, who do not want to do that thing want to reap the benefits of it, they can choose to force the other person to do it through violence or they can produce something else of value to exchange. That's why everyone who is able-bodied is ethically required to contribute to society: the only alternative to free exchange is forcing someone to be your slave. For those who are not able-bodied, the able-bodied among us voluntarily enslave ourselves on their behalf, to lift their burdens. But if you have the means to work and you choose to be a burden on society or your loved ones, that is an unethical choice.
_Microft 8y ago
Sure, you can motivate people to do jobs they might not do otherwise by paying them enough to willingly put up with the shit instead of exploiting existential threats (no job: no food, no home) and being able to get away with paying minimum wage.

rosser 8y ago

I never said no-one should have "jobs" or do difficult things. Maybe there are people in the world whose aspiration is to do those unglamorous things that need doing, just to keep the societal wheels properly greased. There are absolutely enough people in the world who are civically-minded enough that they'll take on crap work that needs doing, without obligating everyone else also to do what is, for most of them, also crap work, but which doesn't do those "socially necessary" things, and instead merely shuffles papers from one folder to another. I fail utterly to see how "there are some things that need to be done" is most appropriately addressed by "Ok, make everyone do something..." EDIT: Phrasing

giggles_giggles 8y ago
>I fail utterly to see how "there are some things that need to be done" is most appropriately addressed by "Ok, make everyone do something... If something needs to be done, someone has to do it. The person who is going to do it either must be forced (slavery) or compensated such that they do the unpleasant, necessary thing voluntarily (payment). If others, who do not want to do that thing want to reap the benefits of it, they can choose to force the other person to do it through violence or they can produce something else of value to exchange. That's why everyone who is able-bodied is ethically required to contribute to society: the only alternative to free exchange is forcing someone to be your slave. For those who are not able-bodied, the able-bodied among us voluntarily enslave ourselves on their behalf, to lift their burdens. But if you have the means to work and you choose to be a burden on society or your loved ones, that is an unethical choice.

_Microft 8y ago

Sure, you can motivate people to do jobs they might not do otherwise by paying them enough to willingly put up with the shit instead of exploiting existential threats (no job: no food, no home) and being able to get away with paying minimum wage.