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Who'd have thought Tesla would have to meet or beat another player on launch day? When announcing a new SUV, Tesla now has to compare with Rivian for availabili

Who'd have thought Tesla would have to meet or beat another player on launch day? When announcing a new SUV, Tesla now has to compare with Rivian for availability, range, price, performance, etc. Until they actually ship, the Model Y is as much vaporware as Rivian. So Tesla has to compete with pie-in-the-sky promises. Here's hoping that they both deliver.

leesec 8y ago
>Until they actually ship, the Model Y is as much vaporware as Rivian. This is absurd IMO. Tesla has now produced several hundred thousand cars. To suggest they have as much credibility as a company who hasn't even created ONE car (please find me a video of someone actually driving it) is crazy. We can all at least assume if Tesla is still viable when Y production is slated, that it will actually be a car.
- freeopinion 8y ago
  I agree that Tesla has more credibility. That was not my argument. I believe that Tesla will deliver the Model Y. But I have enough hope in the Rivian that it will affect my opinion of the Model Y. Until the Rivian actually fails, and if the promised release dates are comparable to the Model Y, then the Model Y has to compete with it for mindshare. Can Model Y match the promised range of the Rivian? Will the prices be comparable? Passenger count, off-road capabilities, comfort, ... As long as Rivian can dangle a timeframe close to the Model Y, plenty of people will hold off on the Y purchase if the Rivian promises more. As the release date gets closer, Rivian might slip, but right now they compete. I'm just noting that I wouldn't have expected Tesla to have such a competitor yet. For now, it's a competition of promises. But whether it's Rivian, or Ford, or whoever, the competition of reality is almost close enough to taste. Almost...
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    Considering the vaporware nature of the Rivian at this point, it makes you wonder if it's existence is merely to pressure Tesla and steal mind/market share from them without ever producing anything.
    - killyp 8y ago
      I don't think Amazon would invest almost $1b into a company just to pressure Tesla. I know there are a lot of EV vaporware companies out there but I don't think Rivian is one of them.
      - cptskippy 8y ago
        I don't either, I was just throwing that out as a mental exercise. Who would benefit from devaluing Tesla and why?
      - leesec 8y ago
        I wonder what makes you think that about Rivian?
yumraj 8y ago
You're forgetting: 1) Hyundai Kona https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx 2) Kia Niro https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehicles/upcoming-vehicles/2019-niro-ev https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehicles/upcoming-vehicles... Both of which are compact EV SUVs, with range greater or comparable to Model 3, from mainstream car manufacturers and are already available or about to be, at ~$37-38K. Also, both have full $7500 Federal credit available, unlike Tesla which is half of that now and will further reduce in July I think. In addition, personal and biased opinion, front and headlights of Rivian looks hideous. [Really curious why would someone down vote this comment? Did I offend folks by comparing a Tesla with a Hyundai and Kia]
- i80and 8y ago
  Neither vehicle is really an SUV, looks aside. Their ground clearance is limited (6.2" for the Kona Electric, ~5.9" for the Kia Niro), and neither offers AWD or any towing rating.
  - yumraj 8y ago
    Personally I doubt that AWD and tow capacity will matter to most folks. Also, I guess we'll have to wait and see how Model Y does in those areas.
    - mohaine 8y ago
      In warm climates, yes. AWD is important anywhere where it snows.
      - dominicr 8y ago
        Useful, yes, but not really important. I drive a FWD (fake)SUV crossover 4 months of the year in snow in the more rural suburbs of Oslo and find myself thinking I want AWD only once or twice a winter. As somebody else said, the roughest drive we do is gravel roads. The bigger difference might be FWD vs RWD. I do seem to see RWD cars getting stuck more (as evidenced by which wheels are spinning uselessly). For the model Y Tesla might well mimic the model 3 options of RWD or AWD, in which case AWD would definitely be the wiser choice.
HalloAgain 8y ago
Pretty funny that you compare a Model Y to Rivian. Model Y will 100% be delivered, because 70%> of the car use the same components as the Model 3. The tooling is already under way at Gigafactory 1 and manufacturing lines being installed for motors and stamping. Tesla is still way smaller than the traditional automotive giants, but make no mistake they have a lot of experience when it comes to EVs. Even traditional automative giants admit that. Rivan has a lot more to prove.
- killyp 8y ago
  I think a lot of people forget that Rivian has the backing of Amazon and GM though. I am not saying that Rivian is a proven car company but I would give them a much higher chance at success than I would have given Tesla 9 years ago. I fully believe that Rivian will deliver and that Tesla will also deliver so I think the comparison between the two is valid.
  - thachmai 8y ago
    Plenty of ventures back by big names end up dead. Even when Amazon or GM themselves execute a new product, it's no where near a guaranteed success... Tesla has products and paying customers. Big difference.
    - killyp 8y ago
      You are right but Amazon has invested almost $1b into Rivian and Amazon has almost as much cash ($42b) as Tesla's market cap ($50b). With GM jumping in too these two companies combined could flex and crush Tesla. Not saying this will happen (I don't think it will) but it could. Amazon no doubt wants in on the self driving electric vehicle market to compete with Tesla, Apple and Google and heavily investing in the best EV startup other than Tesla is the easiest way into this field. But because of this I would put Rivian as only slightly behind Tesla. Now you are right, forcing your way into a field by throwing money at the problem doesn't always ensure success, just as Windows Phone. But as with Windows Phone it does usually ensure a decent product gets to market. And that is all I am saying will happen. The likelihood of a Rivian product getting to market is just as likely as a Model Y getting to market. Both extremely high.
_ph_ 8y ago
The Rivian is rather a Pickup-Truck. The Model Y would be a CUV, that is, a Model 3 with a taller bodywork for a more space in the back row and trunk and allowing for a proper trunk hatch. It is supposed to otherwise share the same platform with the Model 3.
duado 8y ago
By that logic the 2020 Toyota Camry is also “vaporware.”

leesec 8y ago

>Until they actually ship, the Model Y is as much vaporware as Rivian. This is absurd IMO. Tesla has now produced several hundred thousand cars. To suggest they have as much credibility as a company who hasn't even created ONE car (please find me a video of someone actually driving it) is crazy. We can all at least assume if Tesla is still viable when Y production is slated, that it will actually be a car.

freeopinion 8y ago
I agree that Tesla has more credibility. That was not my argument. I believe that Tesla will deliver the Model Y. But I have enough hope in the Rivian that it will affect my opinion of the Model Y. Until the Rivian actually fails, and if the promised release dates are comparable to the Model Y, then the Model Y has to compete with it for mindshare. Can Model Y match the promised range of the Rivian? Will the prices be comparable? Passenger count, off-road capabilities, comfort, ... As long as Rivian can dangle a timeframe close to the Model Y, plenty of people will hold off on the Y purchase if the Rivian promises more. As the release date gets closer, Rivian might slip, but right now they compete. I'm just noting that I wouldn't have expected Tesla to have such a competitor yet. For now, it's a competition of promises. But whether it's Rivian, or Ford, or whoever, the competition of reality is almost close enough to taste. Almost...
- cptskippy 8y ago
  Considering the vaporware nature of the Rivian at this point, it makes you wonder if it's existence is merely to pressure Tesla and steal mind/market share from them without ever producing anything.
  - killyp 8y ago
    I don't think Amazon would invest almost $1b into a company just to pressure Tesla. I know there are a lot of EV vaporware companies out there but I don't think Rivian is one of them.
    - cptskippy 8y ago
      I don't either, I was just throwing that out as a mental exercise. Who would benefit from devaluing Tesla and why?
    - leesec 8y ago
      I wonder what makes you think that about Rivian?

yumraj 8y ago

You're forgetting: 1) Hyundai Kona https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx https://www.hyundaiusa.com/kona-electric/index.aspx 2) Kia Niro https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehicles/upcoming-vehicles/2019-niro-ev https://www.kia.com/us/en/content/vehicles/upcoming-vehicles... Both of which are compact EV SUVs, with range greater or comparable to Model 3, from mainstream car manufacturers and are already available or about to be, at ~$37-38K. Also, both have full $7500 Federal credit available, unlike Tesla which is half of that now and will further reduce in July I think. In addition, personal and biased opinion, front and headlights of Rivian looks hideous. [Really curious why would someone down vote this comment? Did I offend folks by comparing a Tesla with a Hyundai and Kia]

i80and 8y ago
Neither vehicle is really an SUV, looks aside. Their ground clearance is limited (6.2" for the Kona Electric, ~5.9" for the Kia Niro), and neither offers AWD or any towing rating.
- yumraj 8y ago
  Personally I doubt that AWD and tow capacity will matter to most folks. Also, I guess we'll have to wait and see how Model Y does in those areas.
  - mohaine 8y ago
    In warm climates, yes. AWD is important anywhere where it snows.
    - dominicr 8y ago
      Useful, yes, but not really important. I drive a FWD (fake)SUV crossover 4 months of the year in snow in the more rural suburbs of Oslo and find myself thinking I want AWD only once or twice a winter. As somebody else said, the roughest drive we do is gravel roads. The bigger difference might be FWD vs RWD. I do seem to see RWD cars getting stuck more (as evidenced by which wheels are spinning uselessly). For the model Y Tesla might well mimic the model 3 options of RWD or AWD, in which case AWD would definitely be the wiser choice.

HalloAgain 8y ago

Pretty funny that you compare a Model Y to Rivian. Model Y will 100% be delivered, because 70%> of the car use the same components as the Model 3. The tooling is already under way at Gigafactory 1 and manufacturing lines being installed for motors and stamping. Tesla is still way smaller than the traditional automotive giants, but make no mistake they have a lot of experience when it comes to EVs. Even traditional automative giants admit that. Rivan has a lot more to prove.

killyp 8y ago
I think a lot of people forget that Rivian has the backing of Amazon and GM though. I am not saying that Rivian is a proven car company but I would give them a much higher chance at success than I would have given Tesla 9 years ago. I fully believe that Rivian will deliver and that Tesla will also deliver so I think the comparison between the two is valid.
- thachmai 8y ago
  Plenty of ventures back by big names end up dead. Even when Amazon or GM themselves execute a new product, it's no where near a guaranteed success... Tesla has products and paying customers. Big difference.
  - killyp 8y ago
    You are right but Amazon has invested almost $1b into Rivian and Amazon has almost as much cash ($42b) as Tesla's market cap ($50b). With GM jumping in too these two companies combined could flex and crush Tesla. Not saying this will happen (I don't think it will) but it could. Amazon no doubt wants in on the self driving electric vehicle market to compete with Tesla, Apple and Google and heavily investing in the best EV startup other than Tesla is the easiest way into this field. But because of this I would put Rivian as only slightly behind Tesla. Now you are right, forcing your way into a field by throwing money at the problem doesn't always ensure success, just as Windows Phone. But as with Windows Phone it does usually ensure a decent product gets to market. And that is all I am saying will happen. The likelihood of a Rivian product getting to market is just as likely as a Model Y getting to market. Both extremely high.

_ph_ 8y ago

The Rivian is rather a Pickup-Truck. The Model Y would be a CUV, that is, a Model 3 with a taller bodywork for a more space in the back row and trunk and allowing for a proper trunk hatch. It is supposed to otherwise share the same platform with the Model 3.

duado 8y ago

By that logic the 2020 Toyota Camry is also “vaporware.”