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How does the plane's safety record compare against that of motorcycles or sub-compact cars? Should we ban them as well, until they can attain safety parity? My

by whack 8y ago

How does the plane's safety record compare against that of motorcycles or sub-compact cars? Should we ban them as well, until they can attain safety parity? My girlfriend has two intercontinental flights coming up in the next month. Flights that are very important to her life goals and fulfillment. I would hate to see a wrench thrown into those plans, because of a risk that she already takes on every weekend when she goes on a long drive. More importantly, there are so many more pressing issues that we as a society need to be dealing with. Issues like fatalities caused by automobile accidents, inadequate healthcare coverage, medical errors and poor diet. Issues that are being starved of the attention they deserve because of our fixation on sensational deaths, as opposed to the banal but common ones https://outlookzen.com/2015/02/15/all-lives-matter/ https://outlookzen.com/2015/02/15/all-lives-matter/

rorykoehler 8y ago
If cars are considered defective they are recalled. Happens often. Your comment is shockingly tone deaf.
- whack 8y ago
  Whether you choose to categorize a death being caused by "defects" or "user error" is ultimately irrelevant. Any system that's prone by design to user error should be considered equally defective. Even with the two ambiguous incidents on Boeing 737, they are still far safer than the vehicles that people choose to ride everyday for pleasure. I will never ride a motorcycle myself, but would hate to see them banned nationwide. I apologise if my comment is "tone deaf". I happen to think that public policy proposals should be fair game for constructive criticism.
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    If the brakes on your car failed one in every 100k engagements would you feel safe driving your car? Anyways news just in. Sanity prevailed. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727
    - whack 8y ago
      My car is empirically more prone to fatal crashes than the Boeing 737 max. Are you in favor of the government banning you from driving your car?
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
There are about 350 of these planes flying, and they've been in general use for about two years. That implies 1/350 odds of a fatal crash per plane per year. I can't find similar statistics for motorcycles, but that's still wildly unacceptable. And even if it weren't, you're arguing that problems can only be addressed one at a time in strict order of severity, in a nation of 326 million people. That's ridiculous.
- magduf 8y ago
  What's more, this isn't an issue just for a nation of 326M people, this is global. There are other issues which IMO are worse: how many people in America are killed by guns because we refuse to do anything about those legislatively? How many are killed by auto crashes because we refuse to build better trains and public transit? However, other countries (like those in the EU) see this plane as problematic, and are grounding it. That's something that they can do. EU nations don't have any control over America refusing to fix its problems with guns and cars and public transit, but they do have the power to ground unsafe planes in their airspace, so that's what they're doing. As for the US, the US isn't doing anything about this plane at all; that's why we're arguing about it here, combined with the fact that other nations are doing something about it.
- whack 8y ago
  https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-motorcycle-crashes https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-motorcyc... The fatality rates are 25 per 100 million occupant-miles traveled. That's far higher than for the Boeing 737 max. Let's also compare their safety by time, instead of miles traveled. Motorcycles: 25 / (100 x 10^6 / 60) = 0.000015 fatal crashes per hour Boeing 737 max, assuming it averages 12 hour flight time per day, and using your 1/350 odds: 1/(350 x 365 x 12) = 0.00000065 fatal crashes per hour The 737 max is still safer by an entire order of magnitude, even if you compared it by time spent traveling and not miles.

by whack 8y ago

rorykoehler 8y ago

If cars are considered defective they are recalled. Happens often. Your comment is shockingly tone deaf.

whack 8y ago
Whether you choose to categorize a death being caused by "defects" or "user error" is ultimately irrelevant. Any system that's prone by design to user error should be considered equally defective. Even with the two ambiguous incidents on Boeing 737, they are still far safer than the vehicles that people choose to ride everyday for pleasure. I will never ride a motorcycle myself, but would hate to see them banned nationwide. I apologise if my comment is "tone deaf". I happen to think that public policy proposals should be fair game for constructive criticism.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  If the brakes on your car failed one in every 100k engagements would you feel safe driving your car? Anyways news just in. Sanity prevailed. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727
  - whack 8y ago
    My car is empirically more prone to fatal crashes than the Boeing 737 max. Are you in favor of the government banning you from driving your car?

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

There are about 350 of these planes flying, and they've been in general use for about two years. That implies 1/350 odds of a fatal crash per plane per year. I can't find similar statistics for motorcycles, but that's still wildly unacceptable. And even if it weren't, you're arguing that problems can only be addressed one at a time in strict order of severity, in a nation of 326 million people. That's ridiculous.

magduf 8y ago
What's more, this isn't an issue just for a nation of 326M people, this is global. There are other issues which IMO are worse: how many people in America are killed by guns because we refuse to do anything about those legislatively? How many are killed by auto crashes because we refuse to build better trains and public transit? However, other countries (like those in the EU) see this plane as problematic, and are grounding it. That's something that they can do. EU nations don't have any control over America refusing to fix its problems with guns and cars and public transit, but they do have the power to ground unsafe planes in their airspace, so that's what they're doing. As for the US, the US isn't doing anything about this plane at all; that's why we're arguing about it here, combined with the fact that other nations are doing something about it.
whack 8y ago
https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-motorcycle-crashes https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-motorcyc... The fatality rates are 25 per 100 million occupant-miles traveled. That's far higher than for the Boeing 737 max. Let's also compare their safety by time, instead of miles traveled. Motorcycles: 25 / (100 x 10^6 / 60) = 0.000015 fatal crashes per hour Boeing 737 max, assuming it averages 12 hour flight time per day, and using your 1/350 odds: 1/(350 x 365 x 12) = 0.00000065 fatal crashes per hour The 737 max is still safer by an entire order of magnitude, even if you compared it by time spent traveling and not miles.