6 ms·

We don't "need" to do anything. It's nice to have choiches.

by Kurtz79 8y ago

snaky 8y ago
We need to drop Chrome and start using Firefox exactly because of that.
rum3 8y ago
But the internet needs it. A one-browser monopoly will not be good for anyone.
- snaky 8y ago
  Actually it is good for an average user who doesn't care about privacy.
  - dao- 8y ago
    This doesn't even make sense. Not caring about something doesn't mean it won't be an issue for you and the people around you.
kome 8y ago
no, we need it; or we will go back to a fancy version of Internet Explorer 6 (that is, chrome browser): proprietary technology implementation, by a top player, against any standard... and spying on users (but that's new, I don't think IE 6 was that vicious). Web monoculture make the web worse for everybody.
- nolok 8y ago
  It's funny, I see this comparison a lot and the people using it don't see how it misses the mark: the reason (the majority of tech) people hated SO MUCH on IE6 was not because it was proprietary, but because it was static and didn't bring get any advance, thus blocking the web's progress. Chrome doesn't have that issue, at worst you can claim it gives too much power to Google on decision about where the web goes, but not that it keeps it from progressing. It was also not respecting the standards but only after a while (at release it was at the forefront of it), and that is also not a problem that Chrome can relate to. I say that as someone who uses Chrome, enjoy it, but would also prefer if we didn't go back to a single engine being supported on the web (and I switched back to firefox on mobile, because of chrome lacks of support for ad blocking there). By confusing what the fight is about and trying to make it about what it's not, I fear you make some people like me ignore it.
  - close04 8y ago
    Chrome is just as bad but for different reasons. And perhaps even more dangerous (like slowly eroding privacy, or shaping the browser around Google’s revenue generating services). I think the analogy stands and the damage is similar in magnitude.
    - kowdermeister 8y ago
      Have you used IE6 and lower? Do you know what a CSS hack is?
      - close04 8y ago
        Was “for different reasons” too unclear? It’s right at the beginning of the comment. Different reasons but the impact is still dangerous. For example IE6 was not reporting my location to MS despite me turning the option off. Just because some people are ok with that doesn’t make it less of a problem. It just makes it a different (bad) one. And in the passive aggressiveness [0] of your comment you didn’t even think that there are far better reasons why IE6 sucked. If feels random and based less on long term use experience. You write as if you’d be ok with Chrome stabbing you in the eye as long as it’s not a CSS hack, the single reference issue all browsers are benchmarked against. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        kowdermeister 8y ago
        I've read it and I think it's way overblown. All I care about is solid support for standards and Chrome shines it that. I picked them because I could test if you actually experienced it. Chrome at the moment is the best we have but it does come with strings attached. It has different problems indeed, surprise surprise, however I don't think that's that a big issue at all.
        close04 8y ago
        > All I care about [...] You should have started with that instead of the jab. Not only would it have been clear that it’s a personal opinion not a matter of fact (Chrome is better for me) but it would have also saved you the time of coming back later with the real single biggest issue of IE: standards. The issues Chrome pose for most people right now are real. You don’t care about them for your personal reasons but disqualifying them because they’re not yours is very dismissive. You never know when your interests change.
- afiori 8y ago
  It is fair to point out that the negative effect of a google monopoly would be quite different from what happened with IE6
  - buran77 8y ago
    The problems IE6 had are vastly different from the problems Chrome presents. But I would argue the Chrome's are potentially worse. IE6 was a big problem mostly for developers who were perhaps better equipped to deal with them. Chrome not only has the chance to become the "singl;e browser" (if it's not already there) and direct the web wherever but it also poses problems directly to the users who are most definitely not equipped to handle them. I see this as a much bigger issue than IE ever had. It's not technical so a simple patch in your web app won't fix it.
saintPirelli 8y ago
You also have the choice to buy clothes stitched together by children in Southeast-Asia under horrible conditions, but we all know that a responsible consumer decision looks different.
- madeofpalk 8y ago
  Let's not pretend that using a web browser and supporting slave labour is even remotely comparable.
  - saintPirelli 8y ago
    What I'm saying is, that "we have a choice" is a void argument if you have just been presented with a solid case that one choice is clearly better than the other.
samueloph 8y ago
Yeah, and one of these "choices" implies not having any more choice at all
- Kurtz79 8y ago
  You are free to make your own choiche, not to impose it on me.
  - samueloph 8y ago
    Yes, you get the point, now you just need to enforce that because this is actually being forced by a ton of websites requiring chrome to work.

We don't "need" to do anything. It's nice to have choiches.

snaky 8y ago

We need to drop Chrome and start using Firefox exactly because of that.

rum3 8y ago

But the internet needs it. A one-browser monopoly will not be good for anyone.

snaky 8y ago
Actually it is good for an average user who doesn't care about privacy.
- dao- 8y ago
  This doesn't even make sense. Not caring about something doesn't mean it won't be an issue for you and the people around you.

kome 8y ago

no, we need it; or we will go back to a fancy version of Internet Explorer 6 (that is, chrome browser): proprietary technology implementation, by a top player, against any standard... and spying on users (but that's new, I don't think IE 6 was that vicious). Web monoculture make the web worse for everybody.

nolok 8y ago
It's funny, I see this comparison a lot and the people using it don't see how it misses the mark: the reason (the majority of tech) people hated SO MUCH on IE6 was not because it was proprietary, but because it was static and didn't bring get any advance, thus blocking the web's progress. Chrome doesn't have that issue, at worst you can claim it gives too much power to Google on decision about where the web goes, but not that it keeps it from progressing. It was also not respecting the standards but only after a while (at release it was at the forefront of it), and that is also not a problem that Chrome can relate to. I say that as someone who uses Chrome, enjoy it, but would also prefer if we didn't go back to a single engine being supported on the web (and I switched back to firefox on mobile, because of chrome lacks of support for ad blocking there). By confusing what the fight is about and trying to make it about what it's not, I fear you make some people like me ignore it.
- close04 8y ago
  Chrome is just as bad but for different reasons. And perhaps even more dangerous (like slowly eroding privacy, or shaping the browser around Google’s revenue generating services). I think the analogy stands and the damage is similar in magnitude.
  - kowdermeister 8y ago
    Have you used IE6 and lower? Do you know what a CSS hack is?
    - close04 8y ago
      Was “for different reasons” too unclear? It’s right at the beginning of the comment. Different reasons but the impact is still dangerous. For example IE6 was not reporting my location to MS despite me turning the option off. Just because some people are ok with that doesn’t make it less of a problem. It just makes it a different (bad) one. And in the passive aggressiveness [0] of your comment you didn’t even think that there are far better reasons why IE6 sucked. If feels random and based less on long term use experience. You write as if you’d be ok with Chrome stabbing you in the eye as long as it’s not a CSS hack, the single reference issue all browsers are benchmarked against. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - kowdermeister 8y ago
        I've read it and I think it's way overblown. All I care about is solid support for standards and Chrome shines it that. I picked them because I could test if you actually experienced it. Chrome at the moment is the best we have but it does come with strings attached. It has different problems indeed, surprise surprise, however I don't think that's that a big issue at all.
        close04 8y ago
        > All I care about [...] You should have started with that instead of the jab. Not only would it have been clear that it’s a personal opinion not a matter of fact (Chrome is better for me) but it would have also saved you the time of coming back later with the real single biggest issue of IE: standards. The issues Chrome pose for most people right now are real. You don’t care about them for your personal reasons but disqualifying them because they’re not yours is very dismissive. You never know when your interests change.
afiori 8y ago
It is fair to point out that the negative effect of a google monopoly would be quite different from what happened with IE6
- buran77 8y ago
  The problems IE6 had are vastly different from the problems Chrome presents. But I would argue the Chrome's are potentially worse. IE6 was a big problem mostly for developers who were perhaps better equipped to deal with them. Chrome not only has the chance to become the "singl;e browser" (if it's not already there) and direct the web wherever but it also poses problems directly to the users who are most definitely not equipped to handle them. I see this as a much bigger issue than IE ever had. It's not technical so a simple patch in your web app won't fix it.

saintPirelli 8y ago

You also have the choice to buy clothes stitched together by children in Southeast-Asia under horrible conditions, but we all know that a responsible consumer decision looks different.

madeofpalk 8y ago
Let's not pretend that using a web browser and supporting slave labour is even remotely comparable.
- saintPirelli 8y ago
  What I'm saying is, that "we have a choice" is a void argument if you have just been presented with a solid case that one choice is clearly better than the other.

samueloph 8y ago

Yeah, and one of these "choices" implies not having any more choice at all

Kurtz79 8y ago
You are free to make your own choiche, not to impose it on me.
- samueloph 8y ago
  Yes, you get the point, now you just need to enforce that because this is actually being forced by a ton of websites requiring chrome to work.