7 ms·

Amazon selling remaining Kindle 2 stock for $89 on Black Friday

55 points by ukdm 16y ago

raganwald 16y ago
How long before eBook readers are entirely free, supported by subscriptions and/or sales of media? It seems like they are headed in the direction cell phones have already taken.
- Alex3917 16y ago
  It's interesting that some products make the most sense to subsidize when they are very expensive, and other products make the most sense to subsidize when they are almost free. It's not really clear to me that subscriptions & eReaders interact in such a way that they fall neatly into either category. For example, as eReaders approach free are you really going to want a separate crappy eReader for each subscription your have, or would you rather have a really nice eReader for all your subscriptions? And if it's the latter, which I think it clearly is, then does it really make sense to tie one subscription into the initial purchase? The only way it makes sense is if you make something that's like the iPad of eReaders, so that it is the expensive option in a sea of other cheaper options. So even though eReaders will be almost free in three years, it seems like it could be another 6 years before we have the technology to make a luxury version of an eInk product. So in short I guess I would expect some sort of subsidized version in the three years, but I don't see it being done really well for another 6.
  - njharman 16y ago
    > which I think it clearly is, then does it really make sense to tie one subscription into the initial purchase? Unless you're Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, etc. and want to be THE platform and have all subscriptions go through you and onto your awesome device. Apple's iOS AppStore is very successful example of this.
    - Alex3917 16y ago
      People still have to buy it though. Apple isn't going to make crappy eReader so I don't see them getting into the game more seriously until the technology is better, and I don't see everyone carrying around a Kindle either. The Kindle has done enormously well so far, but the fact is that the average American buys only 1 book a year and 70% of them don't even read it[1], so I don't really see how it's going to go from a few million sales to a few hundred million sales. Sure Amazon sells an enormous number of books, but that's because almost all books are read by the same 2% of people or whatever. So let's say Amazon does make some move to ensure that it continues to control eBook sales, what exactly would that look like? Almost everyone who reads daily newspapers already owns a kindle or is on track to within the next couple years, and I don't think people who read magazines would replace them with a kindle. And the student market is just an enormous mess that I don't think Amazon is currently prepared to deal with. So what other captive population would they really be able to capture via a subscription subsidy? [1] Possibly apocryphal, but probably true enough: http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html
- pierrefar 16y ago
  The thing about mobile/cell phones is that they are subsidized only when there is a guaranteed subscription, namely the contract. If eBook readers can figure out a similar guarateed subscription, then yes. Otherwise, I don't see how they can be 100% subsidized. Amazon may try to play a game of lifetime value of a Kindle owner and subsidize based on that. I'm hesitant to think that will work because if the price point drops to $0 to the consumer then Amazon will attract customers who will have lower lifetime value and thus end up costing Amazon the difference between their lifetime value and the cost of the Kindle.
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  - acangiano 16y ago
    Amazon could introduce a subscription service. You get the Kindle for free, have a monthly fee of $29 or $39, and you can download up to 10 titles per month. 1 year minimum contract.
    - loire280 16y ago
      A subscription plan with heavy discounts would go a long way to making me feel better about the DRM on books. Most books are disposable to me: a tech book that is obsolete in a year, novels that are not worth rereading, a popular career or business book I read for context. $10/book is a little too much for something I'm only going to read once.
      - eru 16y ago
        Have you considered joining a library?
        wwortiz 16y ago
        To further this many libraries offer a very weird but usable ebook system which gives you the best of both worlds
- listic 16y ago
  I'd rather prefer that we pay full price for the reader hardware, but be able to buy it anywhere in the world.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  As long as there is no lock-in, I would support it. If, however, we end up having a bunch of different readers each one locked into its own walled garden, I'm out.
  - LaPingvino 16y ago
    We have Calibre, Calibre can convert all your ebooks for different e-readers.
    - camiller 16y ago
      Calibre can convert a Kindle DRM encumbered book to another format? News to me....and apparently the folks at Calebre since .azw isn't listed as one of the supported formats. http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html#what-formats-does-app-support-conversion-to-from http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html#what-formats-d...
      - stevenbedrick 16y ago
        Calibre can't do the conversion, but AZW files are (most of the time) just MOBI files that have been DRM'd, so if you can break the DRM, you can easily convert it to something else (ePub, etc.) using Calibre. Fortunately, the Kindle DRM has been broken for quite some time, so there are plenty of ways to do this.
        jokermatt999 16y ago
        True, but if you're ideologically against DRM, it doesn't make sense to buy DRMed media even if you'll break it later. By giving them profit for DRMed media, you make it less likely that a non-DRM system will come about. (At least, that's my reason for not getting a Kindle)
krschultz 16y ago
Good deal, but I prefer the larger screen for textbooks/reference material which is where you get the most use out of the Kindle. Paperbacks I generally get at the library or used book stores for a buck, reference books I buy and keep.
- varjag 16y ago
  Kindle doesn't seem to be that well suited to references to me. It's not a kind of reader where you can quickly flip pages back and forth.
  - jonhendry 16y ago
    It's probably best as an additional copy of a reference work. Maybe read it straight through the first time on the kindle, but have a paper copy around for more typical reference use. You'd still have the kindle copy handy for things where you're mobile and need to dive in for a quick search.
  - krschultz 16y ago
    Interesting point, I was going on the fact that I keep a lot of mechanical engineering books for the tables in the back of various material properties, and having a kindle instead of a 6 testbooks would be physically so much smaller on my bookshelf, but for actual content the kindle might not be the best choice.
moskie 16y ago
Man, I just had my Kindle 2 stolen last month. (Well, I left it on a plane, but someone did take it and purchase stuff). This is tempting.
miles 16y ago
The Kindle 3 web browser (based on WebKit) is much more capable than the Kindle 2's, opening up all sorts of possibilities (like SSH access via shellinabox: http://tinyapps.org/blog/eink/201009300700_kindle_text_editing.html http://tinyapps.org/blog/eink/201009300700_kindle_text_editi... )
- derwiki 16y ago
  Now I can ssh from my Kindle. miles++
  - tetsuo13 16y ago
    Funny that the third and forth octets of the IP address shown in the Kindle screen shots are obstructed given that the IP begins with 192.168.
    - miles 16y ago
      I'd rather not give away too much info about my internal network (though you're welcome to the first two octets ;-) Even non-routable IP address info can be useful under some circumstances. Probably should've just blanked out the whole thing.
- silentbicycle 16y ago
  Yet another reason to learn ed: "Since the Kindle keyboard lacks Esc and Ctrl, stick with simple text editing tools like cat and ed/ex instead of nano and vi..."
- davidw 16y ago
  I like my Kindle a lot - I just got one - but the screen is really too slow to be anything other than maddening for any sort of remotely dynamic application. It'll be really interesting to see what happens... I like the screen a lot more than LCD for reading, but I also would like to have a more generic device. I also suspect that not being able to hop online every 10 minutes is a good thing in the Kindle though, in terms of sitting down and really reading.
greendot 16y ago
I hope the DX will drop in price too.
Tichy 16y ago
I never had a kindle before, but this sounds like a rather bad deal. I mean, for how much could they sell the Kindle 2 now on a normal day?
- jonhendry 16y ago
  It's not that bad, since the Kindle 2 doesn't have any compatibility limitations compared to the Kindle 3. It's not like Amazon has moved to a format that is Kindle 3-only. The K2 can access all the same media, and ebooks released in 2011 won't strain the K2 CPU any more than ebooks released in 2009. It just has a somewhat lower-contrast screen and a little less storage (which is not a big problem given the small size of ebooks.) ie, it's not like buying an original XBox after the release of the 360.
trickjarrett 16y ago
I'm still planning to get a Nook, mainly because it is more open to non-Amazon books. The ability to put my own ebooks on there is very inviting.
- adulau 16y ago
  You can put your own books on the Kindle (even the one downloaded from Library Genesis...).
- blhack 16y ago
  This seems like a pretty common misconception about the kindle. I've never come across a book I couldn't read on my kindle. Just give it plain text and it's happy.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Isn't there an issue with not being able to read .epub format though? I have a nook which I use exclusively for reading out-of-copyright epubs. I can't complain about it.
    - steve19 16y ago
      Calibre,is an open source ebook management app that allows converting to and from many different formats including epub and mobi (Kindle). http://calibre-ebook.com/ http://calibre-ebook.com/

55 points by ukdm 16y ago

How long before eBook readers are entirely free, supported by subscriptions and/or sales of media? It seems like they are headed in the direction cell phones have already taken.

Alex3917 16y ago
It's interesting that some products make the most sense to subsidize when they are very expensive, and other products make the most sense to subsidize when they are almost free. It's not really clear to me that subscriptions & eReaders interact in such a way that they fall neatly into either category. For example, as eReaders approach free are you really going to want a separate crappy eReader for each subscription your have, or would you rather have a really nice eReader for all your subscriptions? And if it's the latter, which I think it clearly is, then does it really make sense to tie one subscription into the initial purchase? The only way it makes sense is if you make something that's like the iPad of eReaders, so that it is the expensive option in a sea of other cheaper options. So even though eReaders will be almost free in three years, it seems like it could be another 6 years before we have the technology to make a luxury version of an eInk product. So in short I guess I would expect some sort of subsidized version in the three years, but I don't see it being done really well for another 6.
- njharman 16y ago
  > which I think it clearly is, then does it really make sense to tie one subscription into the initial purchase? Unless you're Amazon, Apple, Facebook, Google, etc. and want to be THE platform and have all subscriptions go through you and onto your awesome device. Apple's iOS AppStore is very successful example of this.
  - Alex3917 16y ago
    People still have to buy it though. Apple isn't going to make crappy eReader so I don't see them getting into the game more seriously until the technology is better, and I don't see everyone carrying around a Kindle either. The Kindle has done enormously well so far, but the fact is that the average American buys only 1 book a year and 70% of them don't even read it[1], so I don't really see how it's going to go from a few million sales to a few hundred million sales. Sure Amazon sells an enormous number of books, but that's because almost all books are read by the same 2% of people or whatever. So let's say Amazon does make some move to ensure that it continues to control eBook sales, what exactly would that look like? Almost everyone who reads daily newspapers already owns a kindle or is on track to within the next couple years, and I don't think people who read magazines would replace them with a kindle. And the student market is just an enormous mess that I don't think Amazon is currently prepared to deal with. So what other captive population would they really be able to capture via a subscription subsidy? [1] Possibly apocryphal, but probably true enough: http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html http://www.humorwriters.org/startlingstats.html
pierrefar 16y ago
The thing about mobile/cell phones is that they are subsidized only when there is a guaranteed subscription, namely the contract. If eBook readers can figure out a similar guarateed subscription, then yes. Otherwise, I don't see how they can be 100% subsidized. Amazon may try to play a game of lifetime value of a Kindle owner and subsidize based on that. I'm hesitant to think that will work because if the price point drops to $0 to the consumer then Amazon will attract customers who will have lower lifetime value and thus end up costing Amazon the difference between their lifetime value and the cost of the Kindle.
- deleted 16y ago
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- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- acangiano 16y ago
  Amazon could introduce a subscription service. You get the Kindle for free, have a monthly fee of $29 or $39, and you can download up to 10 titles per month. 1 year minimum contract.
  - loire280 16y ago
    A subscription plan with heavy discounts would go a long way to making me feel better about the DRM on books. Most books are disposable to me: a tech book that is obsolete in a year, novels that are not worth rereading, a popular career or business book I read for context. $10/book is a little too much for something I'm only going to read once.
    - eru 16y ago
      Have you considered joining a library?
      - wwortiz 16y ago
        To further this many libraries offer a very weird but usable ebook system which gives you the best of both worlds
listic 16y ago
I'd rather prefer that we pay full price for the reader hardware, but be able to buy it anywhere in the world.
rbanffy 16y ago
As long as there is no lock-in, I would support it. If, however, we end up having a bunch of different readers each one locked into its own walled garden, I'm out.
- LaPingvino 16y ago
  We have Calibre, Calibre can convert all your ebooks for different e-readers.
  - camiller 16y ago
    Calibre can convert a Kindle DRM encumbered book to another format? News to me....and apparently the folks at Calebre since .azw isn't listed as one of the supported formats. http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html#what-formats-does-app-support-conversion-to-from http://calibre-ebook.com/user_manual/faq.html#what-formats-d...
    - stevenbedrick 16y ago
      Calibre can't do the conversion, but AZW files are (most of the time) just MOBI files that have been DRM'd, so if you can break the DRM, you can easily convert it to something else (ePub, etc.) using Calibre. Fortunately, the Kindle DRM has been broken for quite some time, so there are plenty of ways to do this.
      - jokermatt999 16y ago
        True, but if you're ideologically against DRM, it doesn't make sense to buy DRMed media even if you'll break it later. By giving them profit for DRMed media, you make it less likely that a non-DRM system will come about. (At least, that's my reason for not getting a Kindle)

krschultz 16y ago

Good deal, but I prefer the larger screen for textbooks/reference material which is where you get the most use out of the Kindle. Paperbacks I generally get at the library or used book stores for a buck, reference books I buy and keep.

varjag 16y ago
Kindle doesn't seem to be that well suited to references to me. It's not a kind of reader where you can quickly flip pages back and forth.
- jonhendry 16y ago
  It's probably best as an additional copy of a reference work. Maybe read it straight through the first time on the kindle, but have a paper copy around for more typical reference use. You'd still have the kindle copy handy for things where you're mobile and need to dive in for a quick search.
- krschultz 16y ago
  Interesting point, I was going on the fact that I keep a lot of mechanical engineering books for the tables in the back of various material properties, and having a kindle instead of a 6 testbooks would be physically so much smaller on my bookshelf, but for actual content the kindle might not be the best choice.

moskie 16y ago

Man, I just had my Kindle 2 stolen last month. (Well, I left it on a plane, but someone did take it and purchase stuff). This is tempting.

miles 16y ago

The Kindle 3 web browser (based on WebKit) is much more capable than the Kindle 2's, opening up all sorts of possibilities (like SSH access via shellinabox: http://tinyapps.org/blog/eink/201009300700_kindle_text_editing.html http://tinyapps.org/blog/eink/201009300700_kindle_text_editi... )

derwiki 16y ago
Now I can ssh from my Kindle. miles++
- tetsuo13 16y ago
  Funny that the third and forth octets of the IP address shown in the Kindle screen shots are obstructed given that the IP begins with 192.168.
  - miles 16y ago
    I'd rather not give away too much info about my internal network (though you're welcome to the first two octets ;-) Even non-routable IP address info can be useful under some circumstances. Probably should've just blanked out the whole thing.
silentbicycle 16y ago
Yet another reason to learn ed: "Since the Kindle keyboard lacks Esc and Ctrl, stick with simple text editing tools like cat and ed/ex instead of nano and vi..."
davidw 16y ago
I like my Kindle a lot - I just got one - but the screen is really too slow to be anything other than maddening for any sort of remotely dynamic application. It'll be really interesting to see what happens... I like the screen a lot more than LCD for reading, but I also would like to have a more generic device. I also suspect that not being able to hop online every 10 minutes is a good thing in the Kindle though, in terms of sitting down and really reading.

greendot 16y ago

I hope the DX will drop in price too.

Tichy 16y ago

I never had a kindle before, but this sounds like a rather bad deal. I mean, for how much could they sell the Kindle 2 now on a normal day?

jonhendry 16y ago
It's not that bad, since the Kindle 2 doesn't have any compatibility limitations compared to the Kindle 3. It's not like Amazon has moved to a format that is Kindle 3-only. The K2 can access all the same media, and ebooks released in 2011 won't strain the K2 CPU any more than ebooks released in 2009. It just has a somewhat lower-contrast screen and a little less storage (which is not a big problem given the small size of ebooks.) ie, it's not like buying an original XBox after the release of the 360.

trickjarrett 16y ago

I'm still planning to get a Nook, mainly because it is more open to non-Amazon books. The ability to put my own ebooks on there is very inviting.

adulau 16y ago
You can put your own books on the Kindle (even the one downloaded from Library Genesis...).
blhack 16y ago
This seems like a pretty common misconception about the kindle. I've never come across a book I couldn't read on my kindle. Just give it plain text and it's happy.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Isn't there an issue with not being able to read .epub format though? I have a nook which I use exclusively for reading out-of-copyright epubs. I can't complain about it.
  - steve19 16y ago
    Calibre,is an open source ebook management app that allows converting to and from many different formats including epub and mobi (Kindle). http://calibre-ebook.com/ http://calibre-ebook.com/