4 ms·

I am a scientist. This sure doesn't seem like science to me. I'm not an expert in self-motivation so I don't know if there are placebo controlled randomized ex

by DevX101 16y ago

I am a scientist. This sure doesn't seem like science to me. I'm not an expert in self-motivation so I don't know if there are placebo controlled randomized experiments to test effectiveness of self-motivation, but it seems like a reasonable and testable hypothesis that there are some real cognitive effects. We know that athletes exhibit "muscle memory" where after prolonged repetition of a physical motion there are real changes that occur in the brain to make future repetitions sub-conscious, i.e. "being in the zone". I suppose there could be an analagous system for higher order cognitive processes.

fleitz 16y ago
Given that the placebo effect is real, why not just use a placebo. Sure, this book may not be better than a placebo, but it's $8. If you get any positive effect at all it's probably worth it.
- ma2rten 16y ago
  This book requires you to do something for 3 time everyday for a year. That time is probably wroth a lot more than $8. So, I'd say some proof wouldn't be asked too much.
  - hugh3 16y ago
    Like most diet plans, this is one of those things which is very difficult to prove in the general case and quite easy to test for the individual. If you think it might work you can try it for a couple of weeks and see if it has any noticeable effects. If it does, that's well and good; if it doesn't, big deal. Now, from my point of view the idea that something like this could work is quite plausible. Repeat something to yourself often enough and you'll start to believe it? Sure, that sounds like the kind of thing that the human brain is just dumb enough to fall for. Personally I wouldn't do it in this precise form. Repeat that passage to yourself and you'll feel silly. For starters, it's written in pseudo-archaic English words which the author doesn't actually understand. "I will be liken to"? That isn't even a sensible grammatical construction.
gcheong 16y ago
If the excerpt given in the original post is any indication, the wording of the passages is probably too general to be of any direct effect but there is some evidence that forming what are known as "implementation intentions" does have some effect in helping direct oneself in goal attainment (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-delay/201001/implementation-intentions-facilitate-action-control http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-delay/201001/implem...). So it could be that reminding your self to "persist" can lead you to form a more specific intention that does help you towards goal achievement, but you're probably better off just making your own set of implementation intentions and reading those each day.
- quag 16y ago
  I'm a fan of implementation intentions and have found them to work well. There is a good book chapter from Bas Verplanke called "Habits and implementation intentions". A pdf of the chapter can be downloaded from http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=1935&FileId=312 http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=1935&FileId=312 The chapter focuses on habits and then how implementation intentions can be used to change them.
joshkaufman 16y ago
Priming effects could also explain the results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)
nostrademons 16y ago
There's most definitely an analogous system for higher order cognitive processes. If you play Starcraft a lot, you will get better at Starcraft. If you program a lot, you will get better at programming. If you write a lot, you will get better at writing. The part I'm not sure about is that additional level of abstraction. In my experience, if you read about programming a lot, you may get marginally better at programming, but nowhere near as good as you would've gotten had you spent that time programming. Similarly, if you read about persisting a lot, I doubt you'll get as good as you would if, every time you thought about quitting, you told yourself 'no' and kept going.
- berntb 16y ago
  There is a point, since there will be diminishing returns, but you miss the concept of complementary training. For instance, it is afaik hard to become a good chess player without reading a bit about opening theory and reading about old matches. It is hard to become good at graphics programming without some math. And so on.
brc 16y ago
Well, we all know that spending time in the company of achievement minded, practical people tends to help with achievement. After all, friendships are really just a regular series of communications with people we tend to agree with. We can even be changed / motivated by people we've never actually met, such as politicians, actors, preachers, whomever. So clearly you don't even need a two-way communication for this to work. It's also possible to be affected by an 'enemy' if you spend enough time with them. So clearly you don't even have to see the person as a friend to accept influence, although it's likely that the less you respected the source, the less influence they woudl have. And it's also clear that, unless this process takes place over time, it's unlikely to be 'life changing'. I can see how a book of repetitive phrases would tap into the same process that causes us to be influenced by friends and other people we respect. The book is really just a way of a message being communicated back to us. You could probably think of it as a hack to get positive ideas burnt into your subconcious on a large scale. And also, it's obviously important that you respect the book (and by extension, the author). Friendships work when you let the friends have influence over your life because you value their opinion. I read a lot of these types of books, and I've been questioned why. I figure I'm just going to spend the time either reading fiction books or watching TV, anyway, so why not?
jonhendry 16y ago
"I'm not an expert in self-motivation so I don't know if there are placebo controlled randomized experiments to test effectiveness of self-motivation, but it seems like a reasonable and testable hypothesis that there are some real cognitive effects." Maybe. But people sure buy a lot of different self-help books that claim to be THE WAY.
- berntb 16y ago
  A large part (to all) of the benefit from those books is certainly from placebo, so that claim is logical...

by DevX101 16y ago

fleitz 16y ago

Given that the placebo effect is real, why not just use a placebo. Sure, this book may not be better than a placebo, but it's $8. If you get any positive effect at all it's probably worth it.

ma2rten 16y ago
This book requires you to do something for 3 time everyday for a year. That time is probably wroth a lot more than $8. So, I'd say some proof wouldn't be asked too much.
- hugh3 16y ago
  Like most diet plans, this is one of those things which is very difficult to prove in the general case and quite easy to test for the individual. If you think it might work you can try it for a couple of weeks and see if it has any noticeable effects. If it does, that's well and good; if it doesn't, big deal. Now, from my point of view the idea that something like this could work is quite plausible. Repeat something to yourself often enough and you'll start to believe it? Sure, that sounds like the kind of thing that the human brain is just dumb enough to fall for. Personally I wouldn't do it in this precise form. Repeat that passage to yourself and you'll feel silly. For starters, it's written in pseudo-archaic English words which the author doesn't actually understand. "I will be liken to"? That isn't even a sensible grammatical construction.

gcheong 16y ago

If the excerpt given in the original post is any indication, the wording of the passages is probably too general to be of any direct effect but there is some evidence that forming what are known as "implementation intentions" does have some effect in helping direct oneself in goal attainment (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-delay/201001/implementation-intentions-facilitate-action-control http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/dont-delay/201001/implem...). So it could be that reminding your self to "persist" can lead you to form a more specific intention that does help you towards goal achievement, but you're probably better off just making your own set of implementation intentions and reading those each day.

quag 16y ago
I'm a fan of implementation intentions and have found them to work well. There is a good book chapter from Bas Verplanke called "Habits and implementation intentions". A pdf of the chapter can be downloaded from http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=1935&FileId=312 http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=1935&FileId=312 The chapter focuses on habits and then how implementation intentions can be used to change them.

joshkaufman 16y ago

Priming effects could also explain the results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)

nostrademons 16y ago

There's most definitely an analogous system for higher order cognitive processes. If you play Starcraft a lot, you will get better at Starcraft. If you program a lot, you will get better at programming. If you write a lot, you will get better at writing. The part I'm not sure about is that additional level of abstraction. In my experience, if you read about programming a lot, you may get marginally better at programming, but nowhere near as good as you would've gotten had you spent that time programming. Similarly, if you read about persisting a lot, I doubt you'll get as good as you would if, every time you thought about quitting, you told yourself 'no' and kept going.

berntb 16y ago
There is a point, since there will be diminishing returns, but you miss the concept of complementary training. For instance, it is afaik hard to become a good chess player without reading a bit about opening theory and reading about old matches. It is hard to become good at graphics programming without some math. And so on.

brc 16y ago

Well, we all know that spending time in the company of achievement minded, practical people tends to help with achievement. After all, friendships are really just a regular series of communications with people we tend to agree with. We can even be changed / motivated by people we've never actually met, such as politicians, actors, preachers, whomever. So clearly you don't even need a two-way communication for this to work. It's also possible to be affected by an 'enemy' if you spend enough time with them. So clearly you don't even have to see the person as a friend to accept influence, although it's likely that the less you respected the source, the less influence they woudl have. And it's also clear that, unless this process takes place over time, it's unlikely to be 'life changing'. I can see how a book of repetitive phrases would tap into the same process that causes us to be influenced by friends and other people we respect. The book is really just a way of a message being communicated back to us. You could probably think of it as a hack to get positive ideas burnt into your subconcious on a large scale. And also, it's obviously important that you respect the book (and by extension, the author). Friendships work when you let the friends have influence over your life because you value their opinion. I read a lot of these types of books, and I've been questioned why. I figure I'm just going to spend the time either reading fiction books or watching TV, anyway, so why not?

jonhendry 16y ago

"I'm not an expert in self-motivation so I don't know if there are placebo controlled randomized experiments to test effectiveness of self-motivation, but it seems like a reasonable and testable hypothesis that there are some real cognitive effects." Maybe. But people sure buy a lot of different self-help books that claim to be THE WAY.

berntb 16y ago
A large part (to all) of the benefit from those books is certainly from placebo, so that claim is logical...