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I think that we will see excessive commercialization as something evil in 50+ years, along with the whole institution of corporations. So, going on this train

by mrtron 18y ago

I think that we will see excessive commercialization as something evil in 50+ years, along with the whole institution of corporations. So, going on this train of thought, how can you be a slave to any corporation where the huge number of employees are making very few very rich and die happy? On my death bed I will not look back and say 'I am really glad I worked for X and sacrificed time from my friends and family to make the company extra money.' I just want to be proud of my accomplishments and know I worked hard and played hard. Whether or not I got by with ad revenue probably won't factor into it too much for me.

gojomo 18y ago
If you live in a highly-developed country, 'the whole institution of corporations', legal fiction/invention that it is, is probably responsible for most of your modern comforts. The institution of corporations is certainly responsible for the startup opportunities cherished by this community. On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you.
- mrtron 18y ago
  I don't think there currently is a better social and economic system than capitalism and corporations. What I was trying to say wasn't really anything more than most people who work for ANY corporation (not just advertising) probably can't reflect and say they lived idealistically in regards to morals. Also I was trying to say exactly that: I want to do all I can regardless of what I am doing or where I am working. Current stress is crushing my writing skills, especially coding.
- jshen 18y ago
  "On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you" Or you may wish that you hadn't eaten the nutrionless high calorie corporate created food products that lead to your chronic disease? Or maybe it was the corporate toxic wasted dumped in the river upstream from your small town, while the corporate CEO lived on the other side of the country in a mansion and couldn't care less about the environment in your small town? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you too. But you are only half right.
  - mrtron 18y ago
    I definitely was trying to bring these sort of situations into light, but my attempt was poor. As a general followup, and providing far more personal information than I ever do online, my father is currently hospitalized. He has a few things wrong with him, but several are almost certainly tied to chemicals he used at work. This was the reason I posted the 'corporations can be evil' post. It is why I feel strongly that we need to improve the current system to include some social and environmental costs of certain corporations. I do understand that will not happen soon, and we are forced to work within the rules of the current system.
- LPTS 18y ago
  I really think you are wrong about google being a great job where people can easily be fulfilled. But, I sure agree with you about corporations doing a lot of good for the world. Corporations are great. The problem with corporations is in a combination of the shitty supreme court ruling that gives them all the rights of people, and the laws that say (unlike people) there only obligation is to maximize shareholder value. A lot of corporate abuse comes from them having all the legal rights of personhood but none of the moral responsibilities or ethics that come with personhood. We need corporations, but they should only get the rights of personhood if they agree to the ethical and moral responsibilities of personhood too. The problem isn't with corporations in and of themselves, it's this shitty legal context they exist in. The other problem with corporations is that they can pass off costs to the public. For example, the true cost of oil includes the environmental damage from burning hydrocarbons, but this doesn't show up on the balance sheet. Or, if you prefer, the costs of bottling pepsi include water rights issues, yet bottlers often don't have to pay market price for this access, and may continue to get heavily subsidized water during a drought. If these two problems were solved, corporations would be a lot better. I think people who attribute the problems corporations are confused and the problem is really a subtler issue around the particular way we allow corporations to selectively get the benefits of citizenship without the responsibilities, and to pass off costs like environmental, opportunity, and subsidies.

by mrtron 18y ago

gojomo 18y ago

If you live in a highly-developed country, 'the whole institution of corporations', legal fiction/invention that it is, is probably responsible for most of your modern comforts. The institution of corporations is certainly responsible for the startup opportunities cherished by this community. On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you.

mrtron 18y ago
I don't think there currently is a better social and economic system than capitalism and corporations. What I was trying to say wasn't really anything more than most people who work for ANY corporation (not just advertising) probably can't reflect and say they lived idealistically in regards to morals. Also I was trying to say exactly that: I want to do all I can regardless of what I am doing or where I am working. Current stress is crushing my writing skills, especially coding.
jshen 18y ago
"On your death bed, you might wish somebody had worked harder at their company to cure whatever's killing you" Or you may wish that you hadn't eaten the nutrionless high calorie corporate created food products that lead to your chronic disease? Or maybe it was the corporate toxic wasted dumped in the river upstream from your small town, while the corporate CEO lived on the other side of the country in a mansion and couldn't care less about the environment in your small town? Don't get me wrong, I agree with you too. But you are only half right.
- mrtron 18y ago
  I definitely was trying to bring these sort of situations into light, but my attempt was poor. As a general followup, and providing far more personal information than I ever do online, my father is currently hospitalized. He has a few things wrong with him, but several are almost certainly tied to chemicals he used at work. This was the reason I posted the 'corporations can be evil' post. It is why I feel strongly that we need to improve the current system to include some social and environmental costs of certain corporations. I do understand that will not happen soon, and we are forced to work within the rules of the current system.
LPTS 18y ago
I really think you are wrong about google being a great job where people can easily be fulfilled. But, I sure agree with you about corporations doing a lot of good for the world. Corporations are great. The problem with corporations is in a combination of the shitty supreme court ruling that gives them all the rights of people, and the laws that say (unlike people) there only obligation is to maximize shareholder value. A lot of corporate abuse comes from them having all the legal rights of personhood but none of the moral responsibilities or ethics that come with personhood. We need corporations, but they should only get the rights of personhood if they agree to the ethical and moral responsibilities of personhood too. The problem isn't with corporations in and of themselves, it's this shitty legal context they exist in. The other problem with corporations is that they can pass off costs to the public. For example, the true cost of oil includes the environmental damage from burning hydrocarbons, but this doesn't show up on the balance sheet. Or, if you prefer, the costs of bottling pepsi include water rights issues, yet bottlers often don't have to pay market price for this access, and may continue to get heavily subsidized water during a drought. If these two problems were solved, corporations would be a lot better. I think people who attribute the problems corporations are confused and the problem is really a subtler issue around the particular way we allow corporations to selectively get the benefits of citizenship without the responsibilities, and to pass off costs like environmental, opportunity, and subsidies.