5 ms·

How is a school prestigious by allowing undeserving[1] rich kids in? [1] In the sense that they're not academically or athletically at the top of the heap.

exolymph 8y ago
"The daughter of [so-and-so famous person] attends here" is a huge draw. Think of Harvard and its ilk as finishing schools and networking groups.
mLuby 8y ago
Because riches and prestige are often found in the same family, so a school or company with an aggregation of such families' progeny is able to reflect some of their shine. Not saying it's a morally correct, but that's 's how (American) society works. We aren't good at predicting a child's success so we fall back on historical (familial) data.
- anyfoo 8y ago
  I really don't get how that can reasonably be considered a better predictor of a successful university degree than previous grades and application tests, without some serious mental gymnastics.
  - mLuby 8y ago
    It's not that hard. Assume Richie Rich and Freckles Friendly are innately equally good students. Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has. In contrast, Richie has a pretty carefree existence which he likely spends developing relationships with other rich kids. He can study if he needs to, pay for private tutors, etc. Plus, from the perspective of University The Business™, Richie is more likely to inherit wealth and business opportunities that make him more likely to donate to the school in the future; he's a better investment than Freckles.
    - anyfoo 8y ago
      > Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has. Right. But that's part of the point, is it not? Those factors were almost a non-issue for me in Germany. Having no tuition, I had to work part-time to pay for rent, food, and recreational activities, but that wasn't nearly stressful or time consuming enough to impact my studies (or even my social life). As such, "student loans" are also not really a thing in Germany. I did take a loan of a few thousand Euros towards the end of my studies, in order to be able to focus on my degree without a job and still have a roof over my head, but I was able to repay all of it very quickly as soon as I entered the workforce. Meaning, those disadvantages for non-affluent people at ivy league universities are entirely self-created, and very likely have the net effect of promoting students who are innately worse but financially better off to success.
brightball 8y ago
FWIW, he did say legacy, specifically.
sverige 8y ago
I have to confess that I have never understood why athletics is considered necessary at academic institutions, so it is even less understandable why athletics is considered during admissions.
- ez76 8y ago
  It brings in alumni, who bring in money.
roenxi 8y ago
You can answer that question by playing semantics - copying from a dictionary, 'prestige' is having 'standing or estimation in the eyes of people'. Most of the prestigious people I can name aren't prestigious because of their academic achievement, that is for sure - so it isn't obvious why an academic institution should be prestigious full stop. They all teach a similar syllabus, and most professors are remarkably talented. Harvard is prestigious because the students that go to Harvard are well connected, not because Harvard is imparting some superior secret sauce to its students. The selling point is the network of other people who are important, eg, the children of the sort of people who went to Harvard. We don't give people standing or estimation from academic or athletic ability except in extreme edge cases (much more extreme than college admission). There is a strong correlation between intelligence and prestige, but that is because smart people make decisions that earn them prestige more than because academic ability is prestigious.
ajmurmann 8y ago
A huge value of attending writ elite US universities lies in the network you get to build. While it's nice to have future Nobell Price laureates in your network it's also nice to have heirs to bring late family fortunes that also might already bring very good family connections to the table.

exolymph 8y ago

"The daughter of [so-and-so famous person] attends here" is a huge draw. Think of Harvard and its ilk as finishing schools and networking groups.

mLuby 8y ago

Because riches and prestige are often found in the same family, so a school or company with an aggregation of such families' progeny is able to reflect some of their shine. Not saying it's a morally correct, but that's 's how (American) society works. We aren't good at predicting a child's success so we fall back on historical (familial) data.

anyfoo 8y ago
I really don't get how that can reasonably be considered a better predictor of a successful university degree than previous grades and application tests, without some serious mental gymnastics.
- mLuby 8y ago
  It's not that hard. Assume Richie Rich and Freckles Friendly are innately equally good students. Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has. In contrast, Richie has a pretty carefree existence which he likely spends developing relationships with other rich kids. He can study if he needs to, pay for private tutors, etc. Plus, from the perspective of University The Business™, Richie is more likely to inherit wealth and business opportunities that make him more likely to donate to the school in the future; he's a better investment than Freckles.
  - anyfoo 8y ago
    > Freckles almost certainly has additional stressors in his life, since he maintains his scholarship(s), works outside of class, frets over his student loans, and has to be careful how he spends what little cash he has. Right. But that's part of the point, is it not? Those factors were almost a non-issue for me in Germany. Having no tuition, I had to work part-time to pay for rent, food, and recreational activities, but that wasn't nearly stressful or time consuming enough to impact my studies (or even my social life). As such, "student loans" are also not really a thing in Germany. I did take a loan of a few thousand Euros towards the end of my studies, in order to be able to focus on my degree without a job and still have a roof over my head, but I was able to repay all of it very quickly as soon as I entered the workforce. Meaning, those disadvantages for non-affluent people at ivy league universities are entirely self-created, and very likely have the net effect of promoting students who are innately worse but financially better off to success.

brightball 8y ago

FWIW, he did say legacy, specifically.

sverige 8y ago

I have to confess that I have never understood why athletics is considered necessary at academic institutions, so it is even less understandable why athletics is considered during admissions.

ez76 8y ago
It brings in alumni, who bring in money.

roenxi 8y ago

You can answer that question by playing semantics - copying from a dictionary, 'prestige' is having 'standing or estimation in the eyes of people'. Most of the prestigious people I can name aren't prestigious because of their academic achievement, that is for sure - so it isn't obvious why an academic institution should be prestigious full stop. They all teach a similar syllabus, and most professors are remarkably talented. Harvard is prestigious because the students that go to Harvard are well connected, not because Harvard is imparting some superior secret sauce to its students. The selling point is the network of other people who are important, eg, the children of the sort of people who went to Harvard. We don't give people standing or estimation from academic or athletic ability except in extreme edge cases (much more extreme than college admission). There is a strong correlation between intelligence and prestige, but that is because smart people make decisions that earn them prestige more than because academic ability is prestigious.

ajmurmann 8y ago

A huge value of attending writ elite US universities lies in the network you get to build. While it's nice to have future Nobell Price laureates in your network it's also nice to have heirs to bring late family fortunes that also might already bring very good family connections to the table.